What Is Happening Not On Automatic?

Ayanma found me through email. It was only a tiny nudge that she needed. Love how nice and smooth it went. 

Ayanma:
Hi Ilona,
I'll be interested to discuss and go further with you whenever you have some availability.
I have first seen clearly that there is no I  ... and that the "I " is just a thought ... that was quite a long time ago...
It was amazing... I could not believe how ridiculous it was... I had spent so much time and energy searching...

But somehow the contraction came back... and in the same time, the energy for the search disappeared, at least
it is much less, I do sense some way of escaping not to see... like even now for writing...
and that is mainly why I feel this discussion can help... in not escaping...

A big thank you for what you do.
Love,

Ilona:
Hi Ayanma

Thank you for email.

Hm, so you say that you have seen that I is a thought, that there is no such entity that drives the body.

Then contraction comes.
Is it not on automatic? Is it happening to you? Is it wrong in any way?

Ayanma:
Hi Ilona,

Thank you so much for such a quick answer.

Well yes I guess I am surprised that having seen so well how the "I" is nothing, just a made-up idea,
I can still believe in an "I", do as if... until I catch myself in it...
It was very clear at first, then at some point, the "I" thought came back.

The expectation is to live from the perspective of no I , no coming back to a sense of I
the contraction comes back to no one and it does not matter, thanks for the question,
when this is seen, it is fine, but it is not always seen !!

The escaping is just a way to avoid serious looking or inquiry right at the moment when it is needed...
as if there was some protection needed...
In looking at "what is doing escaping" it feels like a protection mechanism of the I thought,
a kind of game to perpetuate a cloud or a fog not to see the emptiness...
but right now speaking about it, it seems absurd, and not present...

yet when I saw clearly the nothingness of this small I, there was also a sense of complete emptiness, which really surprised me
and also frightened me, I guess, I say I guess because somehow I did not have the words...

Thank you,
Love,


Ilona:
Sorry for delay this time, I get a lot of messages and I missed to answer yours..

 "Well yes I guess I am surprised that having seen so well how the "I" is nothing, just a made-up idea,
 I can still believe in an "I", do as if... until I catch myself in it...
 It was very clear at first, then at some point, the "I" thought came back"

Examine this closer- I still believe in 'i'

Can you really believe that there is this entity that controls and manages life?
Cause if you do- you haven't seen it clearly enough.  Once you see it, it can not be lost, ever.  It's same way like you can never believe in Santa/ tooth fairy or whatever magic character you did as a child.

It's one way realisation.

So check within with full and complete honesty, can you believe that I?

"The expectation is to live from the perspective of no I , no coming back to a sense of I"

What exactly is the sense of I? Is that sense still here if it's not labelled? Check it.

"the contraction comes back to no one and it does not matter, thanks for the question,
 when this is seen, it is fine, but it is not always seen !!"

Ok, when you watch a movie that is very interesting, at some places you get sucked in the story and experience the film fully. Seems like background fades away and you are in it, feeling emotions and identifying with characters.
Then you zoom out of the movie and watch it knowing that it's the movie, not real life.

Same here- sometimes the story is so vivid and it's taken for real, it's part of the fun. Is there anything wrong with that? Still, no matter what, you know, it's a story, when you check.

 "The escaping is just a way to avoid serious looking or inquiry right at the moment when it is needed...
as if there was some protection needed..."

Again, what is it that is doing escaping? What is it that is dooing the looking?
What is it that controls attention and focus.  Is it not on automatic?


"In looking at "what is doing escaping" it feels like a protection mechanism of the I thought,
 a kind of game to perpetuate a cloud or a fog not to see the emptiness...
 but right now speaking about it, it seems absurd, and not present..."

Ha, yes.


''yet when I saw clearly the nothingness of this small I, there was also a sense of complete emptiness, which really surprised me and also frightened me, I guess, I say I guess because somehow I did not have the words..."


Is there a big I?
What is the I that is used in your writing refer to?
Much love to you.

Ayanma:
Hi Ilona,
Thank you so much for your answer and the big hug which I appreciate and give back!
So nice to be able to speak about this ... it is such help !!

You said
>> Once you see it, it can not be lost, ever.

And that is why I am here with you, because it is not exactly what has been happening here...
Of course it is what seemed obvious at first, how can you believe in Santa Claus when you see it is a lie...
but are there not layers... and the sight gets more or less clear... or habits and you believe into words again or the mainstream habit ??
When you ask if I still believe in this entity... yes until I stop and check !!

A long time ago, I was in India and did the self inquiry for the first time, it immediately was seen that there was no one and no more question
in answer to who am I? just a vast beautiful warm space ... but I had no words for it, no understanding, and the guru there said only :" that is it " which did not help at all... From then on, I found myself even more cut into two worlds : the one of roles, social games, interaction with people and home alone ... and this separation was painful...
Same type of things in India also as everyday after discourses-satsang, where somehow I was gone ... and the need to contract back to the character I thought I was to function in the world (to do what I was supposed to do) and every day this shrinking was hell..

Much later it was seen that there was no need to shrink back to this so called character... which was fiction, but I did not know then

The reason I tell you those two points, is that it feels quite amazing that in both cases, the belief in I still went on...
I heard of people for whom one of those was enough to fully wake up.
So wondering what are the sticky points which keep this apparent I alive...

also what you said about the movie example is troubling me :
> Same here- sometimes the story is so vivid and it's taken for real, it's part of the fun. Is there anything wrong with that? Still, no matter what, you know, it's a story, when you check.

As it just happens that there is no pleasure here to go and see movies, as it is felt as very unpleasant to get identified to these roles...
and more or less in general there is always an awareness of playing roles, since I remember in childhood, with a big interrogation then as to how will I do to believe...
Yet, it feels as if it is forgotten sometimes that it is a role...

No there is no big I, when I was speaking of small I, it was just because it was seen as a small detail in the plain view, and as I say this now the plain view, the wide space is so intimate that it can easily be given a label : sense of I when it has in fact nothing to do with this...

That seems to be one key: seeing now is happening, this intimate taste is labelled with a sense of I...
> What exactly is the sense of I? Is that sense still here if it's not labelled? Check it.

not labelled, it is not here,  it never was seen before this link between "intimacy" and the sense of I and again this intimacy is a label which stops the present happening...

Thank you, it feels easy to look when writing to you,
I'll keep watching in waiting for your feedback,

Much love


Ilona:
Thank you for answer.

The experiences that you had of spaciousness were states. No state is permanent.  We are not looking for another state. We want to see what is here, constant, regardless of ever changing states.

Now look directly at this question and tell me what comes up-


What is happening not on automatic?
What requires an effort?

Really look at it in everyday situations.

Just this little step for now.

Sending love.

Ayanma:
Thank you,

> What is happening not on automatic?
> What requires an effort?


nothing... when looking... absolutely nothing and it is amazing... as the first movement is an I wanting to claim...
but also a question : who looks, whom you ask the question to, the "so familiar taste" belongs to whom...

I look since yesterday and turn around this, not really much to add right now...

Thanks,
Love,

Ilona:
Nice!

How does it feel to see this?
How does it show in your everyday experience?

Is there any doubt at all?



Much love!

Ayanma:
It feels quiet and spacious!
a relief... the questions cuts short any story...
so it feels lighter and quiet empty, as if the balloon was emptying itself...
no need to "force", to "do", to "look for"...  if any of this comes, it is seen as an idea appearing... no more,
so much more present to whatever it happening, like looking at what is happening without concern... yet with
interest... if this is the word...

all this is very "light", I do have to come back to the questions... but definitely there is a liberation's taste

Thanks so much,
I wait to hear from you,
Love,

Ilona:
How is it feeling today?

Ayanma;
Not sure... a bit speechless... and enjoying the absence of pressure...
It was so quick that mind wonders... is this real... it was seen already and then .... but not loud enough to really disturb...
who cares ?

Ilona:
Are you on Facebook? If so, we have an aftercare group where everyone who seen through illusion can share what comes after.  It is very helpful when feelings of stuckness come up. I'd love to invite you there.

Ayanma:
Yes I am on Facebook, thank you!


1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? 

No no me, pure fabrication, a so clever and sticky one!! Of course, there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works

A beautiful game of Consciousness... playing diversity more and more into all forms... so we believe we are separate individuals having a life to live, it is so serious and dramatic, we believe we are deciding, controlling... when it is just an appearance... it starts as soon as the child accepts his name and what he is told : you and I then starts, separation: me and the world, it will be reinforced by education and so on... me, mine how the young child repeats it and enjoys it... until it becomes suffering and search...

3)  How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.  

The metaphor of the ocean and the waves is usually working well to give a picture of the situation.

4)  What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The last and first question in fact you asked: "What is happening not on automatic? "
this is pure jewel, it does really cut short all possible story.

5) what is the I that you are referring to? 

Consciousness seeing through these eyes.

Gratitude and wonder !!

Ilona:
Great answers, but there is one more clarification needed-

Consciousness is seeing through these eyes.
Can you expand on that please.

Is consciousness I? Does I exist in the form of consciousness? What is word I referring to?

Write what it's seen here.
Much love.

Ayanma:
Thanks,

no Consciousness is not I, it feels like a blank wide opened seeing from behind, it is impersonal or the seeing itself...

there is the use of I to refer to the apparent form, apparent character, but it is just a label, there is no "me" behind it.

Does that answer the question??

Love,

Ilona:
Yes! Great :))

Is it ok to put our conversation in my blog, so other guides can read and confirm? Also it may be helpful for someone else who is still looking.

I can use whatever name you like.
Much love


Ayanma:
Yes, of course you can use it, take a name you like.
Thank you so much :))