Lakshmi
Jul 27
Hello dear Ilona,
I am Lakshmi from Hyderabad, India. I have been going
through the articles in your blog for quite sometime. I am also looking but may
be not deep, not sure!!
I was waiting for you to help me but few weeks ago you were not available. I even
asked my cousin, Tarun to help me connect to you.
Can you please guide and help me for the shift.
Regards,
Lakshmi
Ilona
Jul 27
Hi Lakshmi.
Thank you for email.
Yes we can have a conversation, now is a good time.
Tell me a bit about your journey and where you are at the
moment. What are you looking for, what do you expect from this process, what do
you think this will give you.
Take your time to write down all expectations and find those
hidden ones too. Honesty is the key here.
Looking forward to hear from you.
Kind regards
Lakshmi
Jul 29
Hi Ilona,
As I said earlier, since the time Tarun introduced me to
this technique, I have been trying to look at things around and yes, I could
never find a separate "I" existing and it's always a thought. I am at
this stage. I am able to appreciate the labeling the mind does all the time.
I am looking for "I” still.....expecting that i should
feel light and easy sometime, may be i am not looking enough so not feeling it
right away.
My expectations from this process are like i should be able
to enjoy life, should be able to say that life is beautiful as many realized
people said it after they got awakened to this truth of life, to be in the happy
state irrespective of the on-going life.
I have a habit of reacting to everything around soon so i
silently keep expecting this quality of mine to change after this process.....
I hope i spoke with honesty ,
Thanks and many regards,
lakshmi.
Ilona
Jul 30
Hi Lakshmi.
As I said earlier,since the time Tarun introduced me to this
technique,i have been trying to look at things around and yes,i could never
find a separate "I" existing and its always a thought.
I am looking for "I" still.....expecting that i
should feel light and easy sometime ,may be i am not looking enough so not
feeling it right away.
My expectations from this process are like i should be able
to enjoy life,should be able to say that life is beautiful as many realized
people said it after they got awakened to this truth of life.,
to be in the happy state irrespective of the on-going life.
This is not realistic. There is no happy ever after. Life
goes on as it does and things happen. It's not about a happy state at all. It's
about seeing what is already obvious.
If you expect that seeing no self is going to give you an
eternal bliss, it's just a fantasy.
I have a habit of reacting to everything around soon so i
silently keep expecting this quality of mine to change after this process.....
I hope i spoke with honesty,
Thank you.
Before we go further, you got to leave all expectations
behind. It is not what you expect at all.
Mind can never imagine. And having expectations is trying to fit what is
seen into the frame of what it should look like.
Ok, tell me what comes up, when you let this thought in-
There is no I at all, no separate self, no entity that is in
charge of this peace if life, no manager, no controller, no doer, no thinker,
no watcher. All there is is life flowing freely as one movement.
Write what reactions to this statement come up.
Sending love.
Lakshmi
Jul 30
Hi Ilona,
what is it that i find when i am looking for I?
I find body, mind, senses exist and doing their job but can’t
find an "I" existing. i can see things existing everywhere around but can’t
see any I.
What is the first I when looking for I?
Well, i really don’t know but looks like this body, mind
complex is the" I" which is looking for an I.....
The mind which is working as "I"??!!
My reactions when i read the statement
I feel shocked, surprised, I feel it's such a joke that there
is no self existing, feels like laughing aloud.
feel sad, depressed too, feel painful
feel sick,
feel" then, what now?"
oh my god
How could this be?
This is what i feel as of now.
Love,
Lakshmi.
Ilona
Jul 30
Yeah, it's very simple and not even hidden.
Write more, what do you notice.
Was there ever an I there?
Sending love
Lakshmi
Aug 1
Hi Ilona,
Yes, there is no "I" wherever i see, but yes the
"I" THAT IS USUALLY FELT IS THE MIND WITH THIS BODY PROBABLY.
It is very strange to see the affairs happening around. Every
concept, movement around revolves around this so called "I"
So much of identification which only gives temporary states
of happiness, grief and all other emotions. What are all these faiths, beliefs,
relationships for? when there is no "I" existing...
Can illusion of "I" be so powerful that it can
dictate everything around?
Its relatively easily to LOOK when i am in a happy or
neutral state but LOOKING is so difficult in angry or a sad state or in
diseased or suffering state..
Only body, mind, senses, memory exist and are felt and are functioning
all the time in the day today affairs.
From the childhood till the present moment all that which is
registered through the senses in the memory
is used for living, working, growing etc
Emotions, behavioral patterns, movements all are happening
from the stored memory, conditioning....
Noone seems to be having any control over the inputs and the
outputs of living and the life....
Everything is just happening and you are a part of it..
like a dry leaf which fell off from the tree into the
flowing water....
Lakshmi
Aug 3
Hi Ilona, whatever I look at I feel that other than the
existing fact, a picture or the sound there is constant labeling of
the mind that goes on and on, the silence is broken with the constant
chattering of the mind. the thoughts keep on coming from somewhere, when senses are doing their job, the
Ilona
Aug 3
Hi Lakshmi.
Hi Ilona, whatever I look at I feel that other than the
existing
fact, a picture or the sound there is constant labeling of the mind
that goes on and on, the silence is broken with the
constant chattering of the mind.
Yes, there is a voice talking, labeling everything and
telling stories.
the thoughts keep on coming from somewhere,
Take a good look- where are thoughts coming from? What is
behind them? Is there a thinker?
when senses are doing their job, the thoughts come from our saved
memory, past, conditioning, expectations etc.
So it appears, but have a closer look. Is there 'stored
memory' in your experience? Is there past? Future? Is there a container that
contains thoughts?
Is there anyone that the voice is talking to? Is anyone listening?
Are you the voice that keeps talking?
Examine this closely and write to me the answers that feel
true to each question.
Sending love.
Lakshmi
Aug 10
Hi Ilona,
Been busy last few days. but looking most of the time and
its been a very lovely experience of feeling light. no emotion seem to be
staying for long. the answers for the doubts that come up seem to be
effortlessly flowing in and making it easy...
it feels too good, trust me!
will write to you in more detail in next 2 days
Thanks,
Regards,
Lakshmi.
Ilona
Aug 10
Sounds lovely!
Tell me more :)
Lakshmi
Aug 12
True, the life seems to happen....
going on and on..
but this mind takes the charge, labels and tells stories all
the time. It does appear there is a THINKER but that is again the mind which is
saying i believe. The body with mind and senses is the thinker, actor, feeler, reactor and all looks like it projects and reacts, imagines, creates....yes!
because otherwise there is noone.!!!!
The world, the people, the relationships, their qualities
looks like jigsaw puzzle pieces fitting
into each other and collectively appearing as the world around..
There is no THINKER except the interference and chattering
of the mind all the time,...
Oh god!!! but the identification is too much that it appears
as the only real thing existing.. and spins a web of world around that
"I"
But, Yes when i look it seems to be clear.
In spite of all this still it becomes difficult to look in
sad moods....so called the hurt moods and the sad moods.... but yes the answer
does come almost immediately..
All the time the question comes who is there to hurt and who
is there to get hurt....
Vowwww!!!
Is this True????
Is it getting clearer?
Anyways, Thanks Ilona!!!
Regards,
Ilona
Aug 12
Hi Lakshmi.
True,the life seems to happen....
going on and on..
but this mind takes the charge, labels and tells stories all
the time.
That is it's job, one of the functions is labeling
everything, describing experience. It recognizes what is seen, heard,
experienced.
It does appear there is a THINKER but that is again the mind
which is saying i believe. The body with mind and senses is the
thinker, actor, feeler, reactor and all looks like it projects and reacts, imagines, creates....yes!
So it appears, but is it true, really?
because otherwise there is noone.!!!!
Yes, there is no one. It's not that something is absent,
there is nothing there, emptiness.
but the identification is too much that it appears
as the only real thing existing. And spins a web of world around that
"I"
What is I? Take a closer look.
But, Yes when i look it seems to be clear.
See, every time you look it's clear. So keep looking in every situation where it
appears that there is a doer, choose, manager, etc. each identification is an
invitation to look deeper.
In spite of all this still it becomes difficult to look in
sad moods....
The thing with feelings is that all they want is to be felt
fully and openly. There is no need to
analyse feelings. It's an energetic thing going on. When you name the emotion
it appears solid. When you don't name it, it's a movement of sensations in the
body. Feel is as it comes, when it comes and it will pass quickly. You don't
need to do anything else. Just feel.
so called the hurt moods and the sad moods....but yes the
answer does come almost immediately..
All the time the question comes who is there to hurt and who
is there to get hurt....
There is no who. So asking who? question is in itself
creating an illusion. Is there a feeler?
Is there an I here right now? Is there a doer of this action (reading right
now)
Is it getting clearer?
Yes! Keep digging.
Much love.
Lakshmi
Aug 16
Hi Ilona,
There seem to be nothing
existing other than this body mind complex
and the world just runs on the constant chattering of the
mind
MIND, yes, THE MIND is the one that runs the world nothing
else is present...
the nonstop stories, expectations, chattering, commentary,
of the mind that’s happening...
Everything that’s happening is just with this mind that’s
talking,
the mind orders and the body reacts...
The mind is conditioned day after day and it talks.....
Every being is a complex of body, mind and senses together..
No there is no doer to this action of mine right now, whether
its reading the mail, typing it. Everything is happening...
There is continuous happening and all else is the commentary
of the mind, not real....
Thanks Ilona,
LOVE,
Lakshmi
Aug 17
The "I" is just a thought from the MIND
This thought is the strongest that can ever happen...
and then the drama of the mind unfolds around this "I'
Its just too much...
The world is but the combination of our thoughts, words, actions...
thoughts mostly look like coming from somewhere not
known....
Ilona
Aug 17
There seem to be nothing existing other than this body mind
complex
Really? So body exists and nothing else does?
Interesting.
and the world just runs on the constant chattering of the
mind
MIND ,yes, THE MIND is the one that runs the world ,nothing
else is present...
the nonstop stories, expectations, chattering, commentary,
of the mind that’s happening...
Are stories all there is? Take a look at what is underneath
the stories. Does experience need stories in order to be happening?
Test with senses. When you taste something, does experience
of tasting require a story to make it happen?
Get out of the head into sensations and see what is
there.
Sending love
Ilona
Aug 17
The "I" is just a thought from the MIND
This thought is the strongest that can ever happen...
No it is not. It's an empty thought. What is that makes it strong?
The world is but the combination of our thoughts, words, actions...
The thoughts about world create an image. But there is
something else here besides mind created image. What is here now? Take a Look.
Thoughts mostly look like coming from somewhere not
known....
And take a good look, where thoughts are coming from. Look till you see.
Lakshmi
Aug 17
No, the experience doesn't need any stories... experience of tasting
doesn't need a story definitely.
The experience is going on and will go on without all this
commentary
The mind i meant means is the bundle of thoughts..
The body i meant is this physical body which i can see with
the senses..
the sensations are happening and it is happening, no
stories or anything required for this.
The "I" is just an empty thought but gets stronger
with the stories, desires, expectations etc
yes, otherwise it is an empty thought.
will keep writing ,
thanks, Lakshmi..
Ilona
Aug 18
The mind i meant means is the bundle of thoughts..
What is a bundle of thoughts? Is that not just another
thought?
Check if there is some kind of container that holds thoughts
in a bundle?
The body i meant is this physical body which i can see with
the senses..
Have a good look, what is the I that sees? What is seeing?
What is looking? Is there a line between I and senses in experience?
the sensations are happening and it is happening, no
stories or anything required for this.
The "I" is just an empty thought but gets stronger
with the stories, desires, expectations etc
yes, otherwise it is an empty thought.
What is that makes I thought stronger? Take a close look
here.
Sending love.
Lakshmi
Aug 19
Hi Ilona,
Yes, there is no container of thoughts definitely...
it’s just another thought or a label given to the thoughts that flow probably..
no neither the "I" nor the senses seem to be
existing as such except that the actions are happening and the labeling goes
on which we express in words and names...
No there is no line, the senses are acting, the actions are
happening and the rest is the labeling or the commentary....
Will write more,
Thanks,
Love ,
Ilona
Aug 19
Dear Lakshmi,
Good work.
Let’s explore language today. Notice how language creates a doer that is
doing the action. See how subject is part of labeling action.
I breathe- breathing is happening.
Is it I that does breathing?
Does it matter which words describe experience? Does
description affect what is happening?
There is an exercise in this post. Do it and write to me
what you noticed
Explore language while talking to people, listening, reading
and so on.
Sending love.
Lakshmi
Aug 20
Hi Ilona,
Yes, i just did the exercise in the post you sent,
When i was doing the first part, I felt a sort of
palpitations and pain here and there,
but when i did the second part there was a sort of emptiness
and hollowness and vacuum in the body as if it was all empty inside...
What i felt at the end when i compare is that actions
happening without me are happening anyways and truer than the actions with me because
labels are not affecting the experience and only are used for describing.
"I" IS JUST USED FOR COMMUNICATION, DESCRIPTION.....it
doesn't have any existence
Love,
Lakshmi
Ilona
Aug 20
Nice! Yes, description is practical and useful in
communication. :) you are getting close
How about word I, is it empty or it points to a separate entity
that life is happening to?
When word I is used in description of what is happening,
does it mean, that the entity appears?
sending love.
Aug 26
Hi Ilona,
The word "i "is definitely empty except that it is
used for communication or referred to that particular body mind complex.
It is empty because things happen even when it is used or
not.
"I" is an other thought and with a big commentary
around it constantly.
No entity does "I" refer to. nothing appears or disappears
with "I"
Whatever is there is there irrespective of "I’.
Whatever has to happen will be happening.
Love,
Lakshmi
Ilona
Aug 26
Yes!
How does it feel to see this? Are you noticing anything
different in every day experience?
Can you say, that YES, it clear, there is no separate entity
I. If not, is there anything else that needs to be looked at?
Sending Love.
Lakshmi
Aug 26
Yes ilona, things are different in everyday experience.
especially the answers seems to be flowing in the moment a
question arises for day to day incidents..
and the same thing is proven again and again that it is all
a game of the mind...
As of now i don’t feel there is a separate I ...but sometimes at times of hurt the "I" seems real
till looking happens again..
Thanks so much, how could you make it all so simple.....i
know there is noone to make it happen, IT HAPPENS....
Please help till the gate is crossed.....
Much Love,
Ilona
Aug 27
Hi Lakshmi,
Keep looking, what is behind the hurt when it arises, see
how it passes when it's noticed. Mind is checking this in every situation.
I is never real, sometimes it's a habitual assumption that
it comes back, but as you notice, when looked, it's never found. After a while this looking drops, but don't
wait for it, it may take long time, or not.
The hurt is a reaction to a touch of painful spot. You may
look a at it and thank it for showing up, it's an opportunity to release it.
instead of no you can say yes to intense feelings and just feel them openly,
rather than resisting. Each reaction is
an invitation to look. And feelings pass quickly if there is no grasping.
Surrendering is what is left when resistance to what is ends. And when feelings
arise, give them space, feel them.
Are there separate entities in other people? How do you see
your closest ones? How about strangers on the street?
Much love.
Lakshmi
Aug 28
Amazing! superbly told!!
Will answer the questions soon..
Thanks, Regards, Love,
Lakshmi
Sep 4
Hi Ilona,
yes, the hurt just passes when i start looking though it is
taking time to look during those times...
things changed ilona and its just superb, is it so simple?
There is no "I” yes,!!!
The reactions are passing easily, feeling light .
no, there cannot be any separate entities in other people,
just the same body mind complex....differently conditioned, so reacting
differently...otherwise the machines are the same...
yes, my closest ones and he strangers are the same like what
i described but with the close ones there is this body attachment and love,
other feelings..
but it feels easy to understand everyone, closest ones and
strangers ...because it’s all happening and there is noone to do anything.
Thanks,
Love,
Ilona
Sep 6
Sweet! Yes, there is no one here doing anything. All is one
movement of life.
Are you ready for the final questions?
If not, what else we can look at?
Sending love.
Lakshmi
Sep 9
Hi Ilona, want to look into few more aspects before the
final one!!!
will keep writing ..
Thanks for all this
Love,
Ilona
Sep 9
Share with me, what are you noticing..
Love
........................................
Lakshmi
Sep 19
Hi Ilona,
Been looking! Just few thoughts i would like to share ...
The questions about the horrible things that happen around
us in this world disturbs..... Like the rapes, murders,... these things hurt
and makes it difficult to understand
that things happen and deeds done but no doer!!!
Well, as i write
thoughts come that yes this is it... but the doubting mind interferes .
but ilona, i can’t stop saying that this is an amazing drama
unfolding in front of our eyes.
and you made it so simple...
please tell me what is it i need to do for that final step
What is all this? feeling responsible, sacrifice etc etc
used so much in Indian context...
man made ???
good and bad? help and hurt? they vary acc to people, situations
etc
These things are
confusing when looked at...
and yes, all this is the mind chattering...
and the actions are a result of the conditioning ....
all actions result of those thoughts on which there is no
control
then the reactions to all these actions.. it looks a cycle.
Lakshmi
Sep 21
Hi Ilona,
I am ready for the final questions...
Ilona
Sep 21
Sorry for delay with answer.
I'm very happy to hear that you are ready for the last
questions. If something is not clear, answers will let me see what.
Here they are :)
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all,
anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is,
when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as
you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from
before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you
look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do
you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
Please answer in full, when ready.
Much love.
Lakshmi
Sep 24
Hi Ilona,
firstly,Thank you for all this.
1. No there is no self, i, me anywhere. Life is going on
according to how it is supposed to be. There are different body mind organisms
with its own conditioning, programming, memory, just doing what has to be done
all around. Other than this there is no separate I, Me or Self....yes there was"
I "before i started looking for it, The "I" that was there was
what i thought was the life force which made my body move and mind
think....That consciousness is still there but there is no "I" now. That
consciousness is not separate it is universal and is THERE......That’s it....
2. The Illusion of separate self is that I AM SEPARATE ENTITY
AND I EXIST AND AM THE DOER ETC....ya
and may be it starts from the time our mind starts thinking, working even
as a child.... It makes me feel that i am
separate individual, I am responsible for my actions, to plan, to think, to expect,
see good and bad, label,...
Now, I see it as just a THOUGHT, THE MIND PROJECTION, that’s
all... it only exists as a thought. Can’t find it otherwise, neither in me nor
others. Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting of body and mind
working according to the circumstances and conditioning.
3. It feels very light, beautiful because there is no burden
of any doership in me no 'I' even in others so there is noone doing anything to
anyone,. The answers come so easily to the questions which rise in day today
life.. the perception changed ....and can’t believe that it is so simple.
There are no serious complaints, no burden, no serious goals,
no feeling hurt like before, no holding responsible anyone for the deeds
.... though its not always but many times. Because every answer flows in to
balance the emotion.... i am sorry i hope you can understand what i mean.
4. cant really pinpoint the last bit, because every step kept
pushing, looking and looking at every step possible helped me, looking especially when i am hurt helped me to realize and
understand better ...i am sorry that i am unable to pinpoint the last bit,
5. oh no!!!! i definitely cannot control ...of course i even
cannot decide, intend, choose too because they all happen according to the
circumstances, conditioning, etc which is just not in my control..
some of my experiences in life when i look at the past
..... like i always wanted to become a doctor and practice but yes i did become
but not practicing like what i thought,,, sitting at home and taking care of
kids and the other family members because i lost my dad and brother at a
crucial stage in my life and life is just flowing with No ME, NO DECIDING, NO
CHOOSING, NO CONTROL, though the mind seems to be doing this by saying' I
EXIST"....which i realize now that this also is another "THOUGHT"
Many Incidents in life in the past and the present again and
again show that life just happens......
The one quote that just that keep ringing is EVENTS
HAPPEN, DEEDS ARE DONE BUT THERE IS NO DOER and no doer for me is no 'I' no
SELF...
This incident of meeting you, writing to you, looking at
life ....All this also is HAPPENING.....
Thanks and much love,
Ilona
Sep 25
Beautiful, thank you for answers, Lakshmi.
I would like you to take a look little bit closer at this-
was there ever an I? And what is the I that was looking for I?
I can see that a shift has happened, just need to look a bit
more. Awakening is a process and it keeps going..
"Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting
of body and mind working according to the circumstances" - yes, you can
say that, but zoom out a bit, look at totality of movement, including this
body, is there a line between this machine and another machine?
Is it body that is experiencing and reacting? Is there a
line between reaction and circumstances?
When you look at what is looking, what is there?
Much love!
Lakshmi
Sep 25
Hi Ilona,
"I" is another thought looking for "I"
it’s all the mind that’s working...thought by thought
All thoughts are coming as questions and answers too.
There was never an "I"
There is a separation in terms of bodies but otherwise the
rest is all the same... the functioning is the same, the thoughts which come is
anyways beyond control of any machine and when there is no "I" for me
then there is no any other "I"
The experiences and reactions are happening according to the
thoughts that come from somewhere on which there is no control and its the thought
of "I" that is reacting because of the identification with body.
Yes, the circumstances are already there, beyond control and
the reaction comes because of the 'ego'.....the thought "I", the
identification.
there is noone who is looking, looking is happening.....
Thank you so much,
Love,
Lakshmi
hmm!!
Ilona
Sep 25
Thank you for answers.
There is something subtle that I invite you to look at:
You say: it’s the thought of "I" that is reacting because
of the identification with body.
Say word I, loudly or quietly a few times. Is this thought
reacting?
Can a thought identify with body? What is that identifies
with the body? What is behind identification? Can you look closer here, is
there an ego? Or just more thoughts?
What do you notice?
Sending love.
Lakshmi
Sep 26
Hi Ilona, No, the thought I isn't reacting. There is no
identification, There is noone at all. only more and more
thoughts
that's all. There is NOONE...oh my god!! Yes, NOONE indeed..
Love, Lakshmi
Ilona
Sep 26
That is it and all is functioning just fine..
Welcome home. And you know, it's just a beginning, a fresh
start to new way of living.
I'm delighted for you.
I usually put these conversations on the blog, would it be
ok with you? I can use your name or any other name you prefer. If other guides
have questions that may ask, if not I will invite you to join LU Facebook
groups.
Sending love!
Lakshmi
Sep 27
to me
Thank you Ilona,
The journey has been beautiful....
You could do whatever you feel like with the conversations
and my name....
Much Love,
Ilona
Sep 28
Hi Lakshmi,
Thank you so much. It will take me a few days to publish
this. Will let you know when I do that.
Have a wonderful day!
Much love.
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