Nothing Ever Happened...

Sunday

Pallavi 
Hi Ilona, Thank you for accepting my request. I have been looking intensely for the past few days and I think I know what I'm seeing conceptually, but I'm not sure how far I see it. Would you be able to help me?
I have not read much, just started looking due to personal experiences. I watched an LU video on YouTube and have been looking since.

Ilona
hi Pallavi,
thanks for message. yes, sure i can have a chat with you. what is it you are looking for? what is it you are looking at? what do you expect to find, see, experience?

Pallavi 
I am looking to see things as they are. Without any filters, without thoughts. For example, I look at a pen. I'm looking at the pen and looking at the pen is happening to me. But the fact that 'I'm looking' is a thought, because 'I' is a construct, its an identity it gives itself, therefore Looking just happens.
As for what I expect, I've heard stories about other people getting enlightened and they come up when I think of what I expect, but I know they are just stories, like what the 'I' creates everyday. What I expect is nothing but to see things as they are. I don't see a difference between me, or another person, or even a piece of paper. These are all labels, an illusion. Experience happens, and life is. Fear, anger, friendship, these are all labels to reinforce and strengthen 'I' through years of socialization and conditioning. 'I' is a thought, a result of people saying that you are you, and the result of you creating stories to reinforce a separate identity.

Ilona 
does experience include thoughts about experience?

Pallavi 
The experience is the act. It happens according to the flow of nature. Currently, any experience, lets take laughter, gets its identity because the I calls it laughter, it associates it with happiness and so many different labels until the act itself is sucked into a big story. The I then decides when to laugh, under what conditions to laugh.
Experience can't be described- there are just different labels to give it identity for meaning making. These are all thoughts. Once the laughing happens, there are thoughts about the 'laughing' because I has given laughter this name and its function.

Ilona 
This is theory. How about in practice, right here, right now, what is happening- that is direct experience. And it includes thinking. Watch now.

Pallavi 
Its not there. I can't see anything in particular when I just see. Oh! I'm trying to see 'things' when there's nothing to see!

Ilona 
yes.
see things as they are is very simple. you can not see what isn't.
is there pallavi in the room?

Pallavi
No, when I see, I can only see, and I'm not able to see anything. When i just see, there are no thoughts. Just seeing.

I can't see Pallavi, and so I don't have a thought of Pallavi being in the room.

Ilona 
Is there I in the room?

Pallavi 
No

Pallavi
In seeing and hearing, there's nothing. Just seeing and hearing.

Ilona 
how about touching, tasting and smelling?

Pallavi 
For touching, to be honest, I cannot feel anything. There is no difference between me touching any particular thing. There is no hot or cold or anything else. If I see 'touching', then I call whatever part of my body that is doing the action as touching. Touching becomes a thought and I'm aware that I'm touching. Otherwise everything is just like a part of the body.

Same with taste. For the past few days, whatever I put in my mouth tasted the same. There is hunger, and there is eating, but no differential taste. And no idea of satiety. Just instinctive eating and finishing. Today for the first time at dinner, I tasted. I recognized different tastes.

Smell is smell. Its like seeing. When I just smell, there is smelling. That's it. No particular thing to smell.

Ilona 
Nice. Now look at feelings. Is there an I in sensations?

Pallavi 
By feelings, if you mean emotions, then yes, there is an I in them. When I now look at things that have hurt me, there's some sensation in my body. I am unable to recognize fully the reason for the hurt or the reason for the story until I actively tell myself. Even then, recognition is for a few seconds, and then gone, but fear remains for a little longer (I think? because my heart pounds and my breathing is irritated).

Ilona 
There are reactions to triggers. Is it I? When something hurts, is it I that is hurting?
Is that sensation, feeling still there if you don't call it I? Take a look.

Pallavi 
There are reactions to triggers. Is it I? 
The I has attributed, out of habit, this sensation to the trigger and called it hurt.

When something hurts, is it I that is hurting?
The I says it hurts. but when I see, The I doesn't exist. So hurt doesn't exist either.

Is that sensation, feeling still there if you don't call it I? Take a look.
There is a remnant of the sensation, and I forget why it came but the sensation remains even after. It has been there for the past few days. Though gradually decreasing in amount over time.

Thank you so much for doing this Ilona. You're welcome to leave questions for me. I'm going to catch some sleep now and will get back to you with answers tomorrow. Much love.

Ilona 
Hurt is there, it is felt. But is it I that is feeling it?
Sleep well

.......................................
Monday

Pallavi 
There is no I. There is just feeling.
..............
Hi Ilona, I got in touch with Otter Rivers in the gate forum and I told him that you're already guiding me. He said he's happy to help if you're busy, otherwise that its best I continue with you.

Ilona 
Cool, we can continue.
Look if there is I in thinking. Is I a thought or a thinker?
Do thoughts come from I? Where do they come from?

Pallavi 
Thoughts are just coming and going. When I think of I as a thought, it comes as an after thought. But when I'm thinking there are just thoughts. I is not thinking, there is just thinking. Thoughts don't come from I, I don't know where they come from.

Ilona 
Take a look!
Are you in control of thoughts? Can you stop thinking for half an hour at will?
Do you know what next thought will be before it comes?

Pallavi 
I'm not in control of thoughts, and I can't stop thinking at will. Even the thought to stop thinking at will is a thought. I don't know what the next thought will be. thoughts come when I see 'things'.

Ilona 
Is I a different thought? Does it come from different place?
How about me thought?
Can a thought think?

Pallavi 
No I is the same as other thoughts. Me is also the same thought. Based on the situation, when we see ourselves doing something, we think I and when something happens to us we think in terms of me. And a thought cannot think. But how is it that the I thought is strengthened by other thoughts? Why does that happen? There are other thoughts, but not all are strengthened the same way. The I thought cannot choose to strengthen itself because it is a thought. Is it because we see 'I' all the time?

Ilona 
No, you do not see I, you assume it is there. But there is no separate entity I that is in charge and command. It appears so and that is an illusion.
Try this exercise and tell me what you learned.
http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

Pallavi 
Yes. I mean that by trying to see I (as a specific entity) we see I. When we just see, there is no I.

I did this exercise which you have written about on my own three days ago after seeing a quote- 'the seer remains'. I tried to see from the seers point of view from all angles. Seeing, being seen, the seeing of the seeing and being seen. I tried it with touching and listening. And in all three things till yesterday, I was trying to touch 'something'. Yesterday I realized if I just touch or listen without trying to listen to something, there is only touching and listening, nothing else. I knew that the 'something' was a construct. All things around us, I saw the different ways in which they were constructed. Like even a table or chair. We call this thing table or chair and give it a function. I realized this with bodily functions like breathing as well. The I doesn't breathe. Breathing happens. Breathing becomes a part of the construct of I, because we tell ourselves, I breathe. But we don't breathe, breathing happens. In all ways, the words I and me are just fingers used to point to the moon. We confuse them for the moon itself. I and me point to experience, they are not the experience itself.

Ilona 
Ok. So do you exist as a separate entity?

Pallavi 
No
I feel emotional  I can't even think of things to see anymore, I feel like giving up but I'm not able to

Ilona 
Is there I to give up?

Pallavi 
I don't know I can't even think of I. I just feel hurt, and sadness and pain
There no I , there's nothing, just feeling of hurt and pain

Ilona 
Yes. Welcome the sadness and pain. Ask them if they want to leave.

Pallavi 
I went through a sudden break up last week. I cried and cried about suffering and getting sucked in. I cried for it to leave me. I said its ok, these are just thoughts. After a million things that came out of my mouth, which every time I said something I knew it was a lie but I also knew that the mind was going through an ordeal. All that it thought was real wasn't. So suddenly. Memories of the break up come, and when I'm looking don't stay, but now I just shouted and screamed and released everything. Did I just mask the pain with lies? I can't even find an I to lie to. Everything is just like a lie. There are certain lies which give comfort and certain lies which don't.

Ilona 
Yes, the lies are masking up the pain.
Having enough of lies is a drive to finding what is true.
You can welcome the pain and just feel it fully. With no reservation. Without labeling what it is. Just raw energy passing through.

Pallavi 
Yes, I'm doing that. But memories are fresh. Triggers are around all the time. I cried without knowing what I was crying about until I encountered a trigger.
It made me cry more, but there was absolutely no difference in the physical pain after the lies.

I'm sick of the lying. I still see everything as I lie. There is no relief from that. I need to drop the belief in a lie.

Ilona 
It's a stage, it will pass. Keep looking at what is true, what is obvious already.

Pallavi 
Yeah I'm just trying to stay away from the triggers. When I don't see them, everything drops. Even the idea of the trigger. I approach it again and then it hurts again. There is distance to everything? If that can be said? I'm in that state now, most of the time, unable to pay attention to words, sentences. Do you want me to get back to you after a few days? Do you want to ask more questions?

And by unable to pay attention I mean, accord them with any meaning.

Ilona 
Just let whatever wants to happen happen.. Write to me tomorrow, rest today. Just let whatever is be ok. Say yes to whatever comes up, don't try to hold away triggers, invite them closer instead.. Give it all welcoming space to pass through. All is well.
Sending hugs.

Pallavi 
Thank you

Pallavi 
Whatever comes, leaves, if it let it be  

Ilona 
Yes

...............................
Tuesday

Pallavi 
Nothing ever happened. There just is.
The present moment. That's all.

Pallavi 
Dear Ilona, it feels like the looking has stopped. I'm not really involuntarily seeking anything anymore, just trying to give love to my triggers. There's momentary pain at random times, but I'm just constantly giving love. Everything feels very normal.

Ilona 
Sweet. Keep on that, giving love releases them.

Pallavi 
 can you tell me about the gateless gate?
is this called seeing through the illusion of a separate self?
Or rather, to rephrase, is this seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

Ilona 
Yes. Seeing in experience.

Pallavi 
Ah
yes I've been just accepting everything that comes without labels, and releasing love
Not consciously, rather welcoming whatever comes with love

Ilona 
Is there a you that does that?

Pallavi 
Thank you so much for your time Ilona!
No, At times I get lost in the illusion, but when there is feeling, there is feeling, and it goes the way it comes, there is just welcoming with a happy heart
And every time I get lost, there is a snap

Ilona 
So can you say that yes, it's clear that there is no separate self/ I/ me?

Pallavi 
I have seen this. There is no separate self. Even last night, I had a dream, where I was fighting with someone, and my physical self tried to be present with it and it vanished in a pop, because it had never happened. that's when realized, nothing ever happened, its just the present moment that exists.

Ilona
Yes!!!

Pallavi 
There is no i , me, you, life happens as it does
The rest are all labels and constructions
And they start becoming meaningless

Ilona 
Nice !!
So is experience happening to a body or body is experienced?

Pallavi 
Body is an identity given to I. Experience happens to the body, the body being experienced is just the I.

Ilona 
Take a closer look. Is body experiencer?

Pallavi 
No body is not an experiencer. Body is a construct. Experience happens, in life, in the flow.

Ilona 
What does label body point to?

Pallavi 
The I. Body becomes a part of identity of I because we are told this is 'your' body. Otherwise there is no difference between us or any other labeled thing. Everything comes from nature and is returned to nature.

Ilona
Look deeper. In your experience right now.

Ilona 
Identity is assumed. Is there something that identifies?

Pallavi 
The label of body says that whatever boundaries are the so called designated boundaries of body. So when we touch with body in mind we are always touching 'something'..when we just touch, there is no feeling, no difference.

Ilona 
With eyes closed, can you find boundary of body? Is there a line where body ends? Is there a line between here and there? How about the line between inside and outside?

Pallavi 
No, there is nothing that identifies. Even identifying is a thought and a thought doesn't think.

Ilona 
Take your time looking for the boundary.

Pallavi 
I am unable to conceive of a boundary. When I try I feel like I'm drawing artificial lines to make a boundary. I am unable to conceive of here and there or lines, inside or outside, however hard I try. It seems positively ludicrous when I do! The more I try the more I feel like I'm drawing it there rather than it being there.

Ilona 
Nice. So is there a centre?

Pallavi 
Haha, I can't even conceive of one. Can there even be a centre? I can't even imagine it! Where do I place a centre!
There is no centre.
How can there be a centre of nothing.

Ilona 
Gorgeous. How does it feel to see this?

Pallavi 
It feels great. Nothing really sticks, or occupies . It's so good to be one with the present!
Everything is just same. But the way I see it. Approaching everything with a happy heart, be it pain or fear. It feels great!

Ilona 
Let this sink in
We'll talk tomorrow.

Pallavi 
Sure  Thank you so much!

....................................
Today

Pallavi 
Mornings are always bad. It's like my mind is attacked, and the more I get caught up in the illusion, the more pain I have. Like the lie is not being tolerated. It's a big struggle until it all calms down.

Ilona 
You know what to do- let it pass, don't analyze or fight, open up and say yes to all that wants to pass through.

Pallavi 
Yes

Pallavi 
Thank you so much Ilona. There is so much peace

Ilona 
 is there anything else we can look at or you are ready for the final questions?

Pallavi 
I'm ready

Ilona 
Sweet! Here they are
...
Please answer in full, when ready.
Much love.

Pallavi 
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is no separate self, and there never was. In any way shape or form.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of separate self is belief in the self as a separate entity with a specific identity. It starts from when we are babies, when we are told who we are, shown mirrors to concretize the notion of our bodies, creating our story. We are taught to believe. More and more layers of stories get added as we grow older.
In my own experience, I studied identity as part of my dissertation in Oxford. I started questioning the identity of everything around me.

There was something that was once said which struck me, "Even a washing machine is socially constructed". I had also read Merleau Ponty's 'Phenomenology of Perception'. My looking intensified after a sudden break up with a boyfriend. I tried to mask all my feelings with stories, but I knew they were merely stories. I tried to find true meaning of our existence and why we suffer. I had a dream about liberation and I wrote a story on it. My friend sent me a quote, "the seer remains" after which my looking became permanent, intense and involuntary. I could not rest until I had seen reality. You helped me after this, asking me questions pertaining to my experience in the present. You helped me see, touch, smell, hear and feel, in the present, here and now.

To describe fully as I see it now, has no words. Life is just flowing beautifully and perfectly as it always has been. 'I' cannot see any'thing'. There is just seeing :)The rest are all labels and constructions-thoughts. Nothing ever happened, all that exists is the present moment. Thoughts come and go, and that's all they do.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels peaceful and liberating to see this. Before I started the dialogue, I was anxious and frustrated to see reality. As the dialogue progressed, there was constant, intense looking. There were hard moments when I felt like giving up. There were moments where I saw clearly, almost immediately after the questioning. The past few days has been the time when there was struggle, between the I, the lack of belief in the I, and the dropping of everything. I can truly say now, that there is so much peace and ability to see beauty in everything around me.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The last bit that pushed me over, was when I felt like giving up. And I was asked, 'Is there an I to give up?'. There was a lot of pain, but I was determined. You helped me embrace the pain and frustration and give it love. Giving love gave so much peace. The final bit, was when I had a dream, where I was fighting with my friend. My physical self tried to be present with that dream and it vanished into nothing. That was when I realized, nothing ever happened. Only the present moment exists.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
There is no I/me/you to decide, control or choose events in Life. I'm unable to even think of making something happen. They happen of their own accord. Control, intention, decision, are all stories, designed to make meaning out of experience, deluding us to believe we 'need' it to attach meaning to our lives. Experience happens, it exists and is used, not needed.

I will try to describe an example in the right way without trying to imply a purpose for the happening of experience- Situations occurred, my boyfriend broke up with me, I had the dream, I received the quote- 'the seer remains', and also received an LU video from a friend with enabled this liberation to happen.

6) Anything to add?
Just love, to you, LU and all
If there is anything I can do to help liberate anybody else, I would be most happy to do it.

Pallavi 
For the second question, I was not sure whether you wanted my whole experience or experience of seeing the illusion of the self. I can do the latter more clearly, if that's what you asked


Ilona 
It was delightful to read your answers. I'm smiling speechless.
Let this settle in and when you feel ready, we have a group for guides and you are very welcome to join. It's great you have an intention to pass this on. So many people are coming to the forum these days, it's a whole new big wave.

Would it be ok for me to publish our conversation on my blog, so it may be helpful for someone else. And that lets me see if other guides have any questions.
Lots of love your way!

Pallavi 
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You're more than welcome to publish this conversation. I'll let you know in a few days when I'm ready  In the mean time I welcome any questions from anyone else. Lots of love to you too!

Ilona 
Is it ok to your name, Pallavi? Where are you on the map?

Pallavi 
Sure you can use my name
I'm from Hyderabad, India

Ilona 
Sounds exotic
What do you do?

Pallavi 
Haha  It might be pleasantly exotic if it weren't 45 degrees cel outside.
I'm studying for the Civil Services exams
but now, it's funny, but it really feels like it doesn't matter
what I do

Ilona 
Send some heat over here, in uk is a bit chilly-15 or so.
Yes, it doesn't matter, but it's nice to get to know you a little bit.