Aug 1 (4 days ago)
Hi Ilona,
I came across your blog from the Liberation Unleashed website. Many thanks for your compassion to fellow seekers.
I've recently suffered from anxieties and fears due to work stress. My first relief from these symptoms was attending a cupcake decoration class last week - just purely focused on piping cupcakes, no expectations, no stories. I realised that the suffering was all in my 'head'.
This week, I started observing the shift after reading writings from Scott Kiloby, "Gateless Gatecrashers" and your website. Life just life-ing, although the "I" thought-form (eg. stories, baggage) can still be noticed. There are occasions of physical discomfort (ie. anxieties) and I'm unclear whether it is due simply to emotions arising from events, or the "self" hijacking the flow of life.
I would like to request your assistance to enter the gate. Thank you.
Regards.
Ilona:
Hi Justin.
Thank you for email.
Physical discomfort is part of life. It has nothing to do with self. There is no self. Animals too get sick and feel pain, it does not mean they have a self, same human animal. Body does its own business.
Anxieties and frustration is another thing- years of programming do not necessarily vanish just from seeing that there never was a self. So there might be lots of work needed to stabilise and release old patterns. And self can not high jack the flow, it does not exist.
Are you clear on that? There is no self as in zero. What feelings, thoughts arise here?
What do you expect to happen?
Write all hopes and expectations down.
Much love.
Justin:
Aug 2 (3 days ago)
Hi Ilona,
Thanks for your response.
It is currently difficult for me to separate the thought of “self” from feelings of anxiety, the latter seems to trigger thoughts of self. Intellectually, I understand my “self” is like Batman and Santa – it does not exist in reality. Yet, I can act as if the self exists – continuing in such suffering. I believe that something doesn’t have to be true to be useful. I am ready to break out of this belief.
There is no self as in zero. What feelings, thoughts arise here?
Occasionally, I observe that there is no one behind the typing, eating etc, I feel a great sense of relief, lightness, freedom. Things just happen.
Hmmm, in order for “me” to observe that there is no doer, this has to happen after the fact. “I observe” must come later – this labelling/thought is extra. Is this it?
My hopes and expectations are:
- Anxieties, fears, struggles in life and suffering will be removed.
- Others will like and approve of me.
- Provide answers and clarity on my purpose in life and what I should be doing.
- To be happy.
- Living in the flow.
Thank you for your instructions.
Regards.
Justin
Ilona:
Hi Justin.
My hopes and expectations are:
- Anxieties, fears, struggles in life and suffering will be removed.
Not necessarily. At least not right from the start.
There is freedom to experience all spectrum of emotions without judgement that it's wrong to feel what you feel.
- Others will like and approve of me.
Seeing that there is no self does not change what others feel about you. Does not change character. It is a shift in perception. Just that. All is already whole, already unfolding as it should.
- Provide answers and clarity on my purpose in life and what I should be doing.
What if there is no purpose, no meaning..?
- To be happy.
That becomes irrelevant.
- Living in the flow.
It is always just the flow. There is nothing that lives outside of life.
What else do you think should happen? Make sure you bring ALL expectations to the surface as they are what is in the way of seeing.
What you do not want liberation to be?
Justin:
Hi Ilona,
Here is my reply.
What else do you think should happen? Make sure you bring ALL expectations to the surface as they are what is in the way of seeing.
I want to achieve whatever I set my mind to achieve.
I want to be happy and satisfied with what I have achieved.
I want to be perfect in what I do, and receive no criticisms from others.
I want to be loved and accepted by everyone.
I want to achieve peace of mind so there’s no more struggle or suffering in my life.
I want to uncover who I really am and live from that truth.
I want to be physically, emotionally and financially secure.
What you do not want liberation to be?
To continue struggling in life and not feeling satisfied.
To continue having that sense of insecurity, and not being accepted.
To continue to feel stuck, confused and depressed.
To continue living in my head.
Regards.
Justin
Ilona:
Thank you for honest answer.
Can you notice that there is a lot of wanting. It is that wanting that has to be put to rest and if you are ready to take a fresh look what it is, we can start looking.
When you say I, what does it refer to?
Justin:
Thank you for your instructions.
When you say I, what does it refer to?
I refers to a thought associated with name, abilities, various attributes, past stories, future expectations, desires, aversions and preferences. This thought appears to be constantly moulded by experiences and events of the past.
Ilona:
You are looking at grand illusion.
There is nothing behind word I. Just a bunch of thoughts and images.
Character batman has I when he talks in a movie and also has abilities, attributes and past. But is batman real or imagined? That is the question.
How do you recognise what is real and what is imagined?
(real- that which does not disappear if you stop believing in it.)
Spend some time with this and answer, what is more real, Justin or batman, and how do you know.
:)
Justin:
Hi Ilona,
Thank you for your instructions. Tears flow, because I know this is a hard one.
But is batman real or imagined?
Batman is imagined. It is a made-up character that cannot be found in real life.
How do you recognise what is real and what is imagined?
This is difficult for me. That which is imagined requires an extra step of belief to seem believable. This is similar to how we believe the characters and stories in movies to be believable.
what is more real, Justin or batman, and how do you know.
Justin is more real than batman. The extra step of belief is smaller for Justin than batman.
Your questions have raised some worries - that I cannot easily separate real from imagined, and am unaware of my beliefs (in terms of things being real or imagined)!
Regards.
Justin
Ilona:
to Justin
Oh yeah. The bigger the doubt the bigger the awakening- so zen proverb says.
Tell me, what do you know 100% as truth?
Sit with this for a bit and write what comes up.
Justin:
Hi Ilona,
Thank you for responding. Things have been clearer this morning, and I've been referring to your 6-step process on your website to clarify what I know as 100% true.
Step 1: There is no self at all. No me that lives my life.
Fear arises - loss of control and survival without a self. This fear is a result of the doubting, which I describe below. But I also realise that there's never been a self in the first place. The self is imagined and associated with whatever is happening. Seeing, observing, typing etc. just happens with no doer actually.
Step 2: Strip away all expectations
We did that in my previous email.
Step 3: Get in touch with real
The doubt between real and imagined arises because of the mechanism of striving to be something (real or imagined) other than what is. This is a separate issue, but is interfering with this process.
The imagined spoon is not real. Batman is not real. I open my eyes and cannot find them in real life. I can drop the belief now.
Justin is not real (ie. but this is seen below).
Step 4: I is a thought. Thought does not think.
Observing breathing happening, but notice there is no breather. Then the thought "I breathe" arise. This "I" thought points to nothing - there is no one there. There is only breathing happening. Similarly, the thought "Justin breathes". "Justin" points to nothing - there's no one there. When the thought "Justin" comes up, there's nothing to point it to, although there is another separate process of associating that links "Justin" to memories, past experiences. By itself, "Justin" is imagined.
Step 5: The Gate
The current understanding of this is still superficial, but the realisation is that there is no noun, only verb. It's like converting everything to verbs and processes - just happening. Even the arising of thoughts and self, just another process of life just happening. This thought process is strong and there is fear of regressing to a former state. There is still a desire to constantly check to see that no one is there.
There is no Gate. Gate is imagined, just like the imagined spoon.
There is a desire to go for a walk after this.
Step 6: How does it feel to be liberated?
If this is liberation, nothing changes on the outside. Nothing changes on the inside except to clearly see there is no one there. There has never been anyone there.
And to think that "I" control "my" life, plus strive to become something that "I" am not, when there's no one there in the first place!! One illusion on top of another!!
Life still happens. Even thinking still happens. Still transitioning between personal and impersonal - this appears to be difficult.
The only major change is to see how doubting of what's real and imagined is the result of striving, but this is a separate thing to be addressed differently.
Thank you for your patience and listening to me rant. I await your instructions.
Regards.
Justin
Ilona:
oh, wow... how are you feeling? can you describe what happened here? did you really look and saw? or is all still intellectual? the need to keep checking can stay for a while, till it drops too. some time is needed to stabilise and readjust. tell me more, what are you noticing, forget instructions, rant about what and how you see what is really going on.
looking forward to hear from you!
much love.
Justin:
9:51 AM (11 hours ago)
HI Ilona,
Is this it? I was expecting bliss or some big bang. It was just a subtle shift - no one there. Your instructions to sit with it was useful, as I was going on too fast initially.
I've been looking and already observe that there was no one there the past few days. Yesterday, I did your 6-step process, and starting writing on my notepad. It felt strange to notice no one writing, no one reading. "Who is writing this? ..." ended up being there. I think slowing down, and noticing no one doing the breathing, then bringing up the thought "I breathe", then noticing that "I" points to nothing. It was more of slowing down and making sure I don't just do it intellectually.
Things like deciding, observing, choosing, knowing. These are more difficult as I always assume you need an "I" to decide, observe etc. It's all language. Like it states in the video, decisions just get made. This relates to loss of control, loss of self-determination and results in fear. I expect some time is required to adjust for this.
"I" thoughts still arise, but there's another process that reminds myself that there's no "I". I'm not checking that no one's there that much - just go about my life.
Went out for a walk, things seem different. Just seeing - with less labelling, less thoughts. I also felt life energy, and a sense of aliveness. I can tune into this more easily. Maybe this is the flow.
There is an awareness of life being mysterious. This relates to loss of control and self-determination. Problems do not go away. Anxieties remain. Just that there's no one there, and to get on with solving problems, dealing with anxiety sensations. Or just lazing around in bed, refusing to face up to the world this morning.
Regards.
Justin
Ilona:
Beautiful. Yes, no boom, just a drop of belief. Simple and profound.
I have some last questions for you to answer, to make sure, that gate was crossed with both legs :)
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
3) How does it feel to see this?
4) How would you describe it to somebody who is very interested, but has never heard about this illusion.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Please answer when ready in full as honestly as you can.
Sending lots of love to you..
Justin:
Hi Ilona,
Here are my answers.
1. 'Me' cannot be found anywhere in any way, shape or form. No, it was never there in the first place.
2. The illusion of separate self is the assumption that a 'self' exists, which is the doer of deeds, experiencer of experiences etc. It is difficult to say when it started, but likely to be the result of upbringing from adults when I was a child - that "I" am in control of things like continence and behaviour. I believe it works via the construct of language, where there must be a subject in a sentence. This forms part of our internal thought processes, resulting in "I breathe", "I eat" whereas there's no one there but breathing and eating still happening.
3. It feels odd to notice that there is no one there, and yet also normal, because it's actually been like this all along. There are less thoughts going in my head, probably because the "I" thought is now redundant. Life goes on as normal, although I can feel a stronger sense of the life force, or aliveness.
4. This is the process of discovering that there is no instigator behind our activities, and also the nature of how 'self' functions. It requires a sincere look at who or what is the instigator/controller behind all our activities, if any. The result of this looking would show that there is no one behind all our activities. For instance, we can observe that breathing just happens with no one there. The sense of self is a mental labelling process that comes afterwards, attributing an "I" to the activity (ie. I breathe). In reality, that "I" refers to no one.
5. I have some background in meditation, so it was not difficult to just look. I've also read the case studies in "Gateless Gatecrashers". I think it is useful to be calm with no expectations, and slowly look. We have to overcome the belief that there must be a subject involved in every action and just look at what's actually happening. Doing it calmly and slowly provides the gap between observing that there's no one there, and subsequently, the labelling process of "I".
Thank you Ilona! You have a very special role in Life, and I'm indeed fortunate to receive your instructions. Strangely, I'm most grateful for pointing out that I can't tell the difference between real and imagined. Great doubt! It was a great realisation - I, striving to be someone that I'm not, when there's no one there in the first place!
Take care!
Regards.
Justin
Ilona:
That was delightful to read.
:)
Yes, everything is just the same and yet it's different. This is only a beginning, like a new start. There is time for clean up and stabilisation. Soon after all beliefs start falling of in full speed. Like dominoes.
Can I have your permission to post this on my blog as it can help somebody else in turn. Also we have a system at liberation unleashed that once somebody has 'got it' 3 other people confirm that and we invite you to out groups. There is a whole community now on Facebook. It's very helpful when there is a burning question as all have been through similar stuff. I'd love to meet you there.
If you like, I can change the name for the blog.
Lots of love.
*bows.
This was truly epic.
Justin:
Hi Ilona,
You have my permission to post this on your blog. There is no need to change the name, just not to post my email address.
I haven't got a Facebook account yet, but will set up it soon. I'd be interested in joining liberation unleashed, to see what clean-up and stabilisation actions are required. I'm based in London, so let me know when you next have a meet-up.
Lots of love and a big hug! You've been truly wonderful!
*bow
Regards.
Justin
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