Tuesday, 10 January 2012

Liberating Is a Good Word For It ~Catherine

Catherine: Hi Ilona

Thank you for your offer of helping me through. I feel ready to look for myself now to see through the illusion. As I mentioned already I have been trying to look for myself by reading your blog and a lot of the other posts but I feel I need the help directly at this point.
With thanks Catherine

Ilona: Welcome here, Catherine. You said you have been answering questions by yourself.
Let's see where exactly you are at the moment.

If you let this thought in- there is no you at all as a separate being that drives the body, what comes up? Feelings, thoughts?

Catherine: when I let in the thought "there is no me at all as a separate being" I notice feelings of fear, like a stunned or startled feeling right now, very few thoughts but my body feels shaky. I’m just breathing into those feelings.

As I sit with this , there are thoughts, " I’m never going to get it" , but the frozen feeling is relaxing now. The thoughts coming up are " I am trying too hard", I just want to be able to answer honestly and not give what looks like the right answer.

I feel like I have had glimpses during the last two weeks where I could see that there is no me separate from whatever is happening in the moment.
When I ask is there a me typing it feels like there is a me doing this action. It seems easier to see there is no me breathing just breathing happening or there is no me hearing just hearing happening but when it comes to an action like moving my hand or taking a drink or walking across the room it feels like there is a me responding to a thought to do something, i.e thought comes go down and get a drink and there is a me that follows.

Ilona: Ok, Catherine. Let's look at the fear.
Let it be there and observe the fear itself as a mechanism. Look how it brings up a sensation in the body, how it makes the body shake. Let it be ok, observe how fear does its job.
What is its job?

Catherine: yes, looking at the fear, it brings up lots of sensations in the body...., it has brought up shaking, ice cold sensations and stomach churning.
I’m letting it be ok.
Observe how fear does it's job.

It's job is to stop me looking, it's a defence mechanism to keep the me in place. It is tied in with thoughts of "I'm a phony" and sensation of my mind going blank and thoughts of it's impossible to answer the question and then It's the thought that I want to be a me that looks good and is preserved...
It feels lighter to see that.

Ilona: Ok, great work. Still let the fear be here. It is doing its job as protector. Thank it for that. Bow to it. It has been taking care of you all your life. It's not an enemy, it's not to be feared, it's a guard.

What is it protecting from being found out? Can you look behind the fear and tell me if anything needs to be protected.

Catherine: what is the fear protecting from being found out?

When I sit with this I get the thought ," nothingness, just this thought coming " I am nothing"

Can I look behind the fear and tell you if anything needs to be protected?

When I do this I can’t find anything that needs to be protected, the feeling is there's nothing there.

Is the fear guarding me from seeing there is nothing there?

I have no feelings or sensations of fear now. I addressed fear directly and thanked it and it felt benign. It feels like there is emptiness or space behind it and my body feels relaxed. It’s just a thought that comes in that seems to have a lot of power and it’s one that I seem to resist instead of just allow to pass through. wow, I am seeing fear is just a thought. Thank you.

Ilona: you are doing so well :)
yes, fear is there to guard you from seeing the nothingness.. And it does not need to be protected, as there is nothing there. Void. Emptiness. Stillness....

And here there is THIS, right now, this moment.
Can you look now at the thought, that there is no you as a separate being that is managing it's own life, all is life. Can you find a line of separation? Notice, that it is life life-ing, as in verb. Thoughts pop up, scratch follows itch, breathing, reacting to environment is happening, but is there something that all is happening to? Is there an experiencer of experience that is separate from experiencing?


Catherine: Is there an experiencer of experience that is separate from experience?

OK, hearing the buzz of the laptop is happening now, there is the experience of hearing sound but when I look for a hearer that is separate from the experience of hearing I can't find one.....
There's tingling sensation in my feet, there is the experience of feeling the tingling but when I look for a tingler that is separate from the experience I can't find one, the tingler and the tingling are one...wow....There is no experiencer that is separate from the experience of tingling or no hearer that is separate from the experience of hearing

there is just the tinging happening and the hearing happening..
So in answer, no there is no experiencer of experience that is separate from the seeing, hearing and feeling sensations, there is just the experience of seeing the objects in the room, photos , cards, lamp but no seer
Without experiencing experiences there is just a feeling of spaciousness.

Ilona: wow.
All right then add the layer of thoughts, notice that thoughts about experience are also part of experience, is there a thinker of thoughts?

Catherine: Thoughts about experiences are also part of experiences, is there a thinker of thoughts?

Thoughts seem to come by themselves but it feels as if some thoughts lead to me taking actions or making future decisions and those ones seem personal, like there is a me making decisions to do something for example the thought comes go into a quiet room to sit with this question and then I act on it. I feel stuck on this as I can watch the thoughts happening but don't know if they are they unrelated to any action that might seem to follow?

Ilona: Oh no, they are related to action. Like labels. Look at mind as labelling machine, note things as you look around the room. Mind also labels sensations and feelings.

Now raise your left hand above your head.
Do it.

How did that happen?
What was that made the choice to do it?

Is it possible that choose was already made, thought came in later?
Watch closely relation between what is happening and how thoughts label it.

Catherine: Look at mind as labelling machine, note things as you look around the room

Yes I note objects the mind is labelling, cup ,photo frame, glasses case, laptop , fingers etc,
Mind labels sensations and feelings, yes feel a breeze on my legs, feel relieved...

I raised my left hand over my head.....
Yes I notice that my mind is labelling the action that is happening like labelling the fingers typing on the keyboard
How did the action happen? I don't know how it happened but if there is no separate entity here then there was no choice made, it just happened and the thoughts labelled it as me lifting my arm. So then it follows actions are just happening by themselves as thoughts are happening by themselves.

Ilona: Great answer, we are moving forwards:)

What drives human organism?
What drives other animal organisms, like a car or dog?
What makes decisions?

Catherine: Hi Ilona

Thank you for all your help with this,
I have been sitting with these questions for quite a while.....

Biological impulses i.e. need for food, drink, sleep, exercise etc. drive the human organism and the particular environment plays a part in behaviours e.g family or culture influences and preferences come into it too

Other animals are driven by biological instincts and impulses like survival needs in relation to the environment they are in and they can adapt to their surroundings and the characteristic's of the type of animal they are i.e. cats have different types of characteristic's to dogs

A car is mechanical, it does it’s own thing by the mechanic's of how it's built,

what makes decisions?
Like the question how did the arm get raised over my head, different experiences happen during the day, like getting up, eating breakfast, going to work or school or staying at home and it feels like there is a decision maker making different decisions about all of that but the "I" thought that labels everything that happens has been accepted as real and not questioned. So there is not somebody or something making decisions but just that life is happening by itself.

Ilona: Next... You are doing so great! Almost there.
Can you examine the character Catherine, look at the story, can you see how beautiful she is?
Can you tell me how this character looks like from point of view of different people- partner, family, colleague, stranger etc. Can you tell if there is an actor 'me' that plays character? How about the script?

Just examine the story itself, how it works, not focusing on content.

Catherine: Examining the character Catherine, she looks like she has many character traits, things she likes, preferences, habits, interests, and this can look a bit different from different peoples point of view i.e. a boss at work might see a different character from her husband at home or her best friend or her child might see her differently than her mother would or the people she meets through her work would view her differently than her sister. Everybody seeing differently depending on the role she is in with them. The particular role shapes what she looks like from the different people's viewpoint. So Catherine’s character is playing lots of different roles in the story.... Woman, wife, daughter, mother, friend, colleague, team member, citizen, sister, in -law....and many more and these show the character having many different aspects when she is seen from all these perspectives.

Can I tell if there is an actor ' me' that plays Catherine's character?
The script of the story of Catherine's character is playing out all by itself, there is no "me" doing something and the character traits are shaped by the different roles as she responds to the particular environment she is in, which can be influenced by the role at the time e.g. Whether at work or at home. The mind has given the character multiples of labels which are ever expanding and exhausting! Just as the mind has labelled everything that happens and that there is a "I" doing it, the mind has labelled the character is "me".

What a freeing thought this is, wow from being so identified with the roles.....

Ilona: Yes it's very freeing to see how roles are playing out naturally and story is unfolding effortlessly. All is happening to no one, for no reason, simply life is going on. It's safe to retire from being a general manager of life, hehe.

So tell me, is there a separate driver 'me', that is in charge of life? Was there ever a self?

What is real? ( as in does not disappear if you stop believing in it)

Lots of love!

Catherine: Hi Ilona

retiring from being a general manager of life feels great!

No, there is no separate driver "me" that's in charge of life, no decision maker and no orchestrator, there is no me that is separate from experience
There is no self now and there never was a self, just the "I" thought that was believed, this belief in "me" is the cause of suffering

What is real; the physical body (human organism) that is playing out the character , physical surroundings, objects, and the natural world including plants, birds, animals and what is happening; experiencing experiences, life happening is real

big thanks and love

Ilona: thank you! I see that you are through :))) awesome.
Tell me please, what was that last bit that made you look?
How would you explain this no you thingy to somebody who never heard of it before?

How does it feel to be liberated?

Lots of love!

Catherine: Hi Ilona

Seeing through the fear was a huge help initially and seeing that there is no decision maker,I was stuck on that...feeling that "I" am responsible for what happens but sitting with it for many hours over the past two days, in a quiet room and asking the questions exactly as you asked them, giving it my full attention, I just saw, it became clear, especially by focusing on the relationship between what is happening and thought,{ the thought always claiming "I " am doing something but not being able to find a" me" that is separate from the experience that is happening}

I would explain this no you thingy to someone who has never heard of it as:
the mind is playing a great trick that is believed, that the individual is the author of their life and we have never gone directly looking to find this' you' that is a separate entity that is controlling/directing your life, just accepting this is true; But this 'you' cannot be found if we go directly looking for it because it does not exist, life is just happening by itself.You don,t exist separate from life but as life's experiences. There is no loss experienced on seeing this because the belief in a separate 'you' causes all of the suffering that is experienced.

How does it feel to be liberated; It feels really freeing right now,"I" am not responsible, feels amazing. Now just sit back and allow/accept what is happening, "I" am not in control and never was, that feels awesome and funny
too!!Feeling very light and joyful also. Liberating is a good word for it.

Feeling so grateful for your guidance and this forum
much love xx

Ilona: It was a pleasure to read your words, yes, this is it. It's mind blowing how simple that is and how we never question the existence of 'I' the manager.

Welcome to the ride without a driver :) so much to explore.
Let this sink in a bit, it takes a little time to adjust. Please join the unleashed Facebook group :) its great for support and meeting new friends.

Could you describe the moment of seeing as it happened? What was going on in the mind and in the body? In high detail pls.


Catherine: It was when I was focusing on looking for a 'me' that is separate from experiences. I was tuning into the experience of hearing sounds and the thought in my mind was to try to find a line between me a hearer and hearing. It just hit me, a realisation that just hearing is happening , no me that it is happening to. There was an aliveness in my body like the body springing to attention. It felt good, emotionally. I’ve been feeling energised since then, not sleeping as much..
That was the first glimpse. I have a desire to hang on to that moment because its not continuous. But there is a feeling of spaciousness that is staying.
There's some doubt thoughts coming, so it's really good to go back to that moment.

Thank you for the invitation to the facebook group.

Ilona: this is beautiful. Thank you, you have been great!
Look at the doubt, isn't that just another though passing by effortlessly. No need to believe what they say.

See you at Unleashed.

Lots of love.

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