Meanwhile on Ruthless Truth arena....
Ilona is 315
Who else is ready to pop?
If you had enough, come in here.
OH!
Hi 315
The thought/feeling is - "Ready to pop!"
The thought/feeling is - "Ready to pop!"
Ilona
Oh!, great to have you here. So where this thought/ feeling is at?
Describe what is I for you, what is self and how it all works. No need for life story, but mention what is relevant.
Or just simply pop!
Describe what is I for you, what is self and how it all works. No need for life story, but mention what is relevant.
Or just simply pop!
OH!
Hi 315
Great to 'Be-Here.' All there is is One Pop,Popping!
This thought/feeling is 'Being/Life' presently expressing as That-a thought/feeling.
Well,This Life isn't actually expressing as anything,it Simply Is as It Is-
Whatever the apparent appearance.
Whatever 'This' is,it Is.
There isn't any one or thing that experiences a thought/feeling,all there is is this
Experience- There isn't any-one or thing having this experience.
What is 'I' ?
There is no actual 'I' existing as a separate entity.
'I' is a thought/feeling,an experience,but there isn't an experiencer-
Only Experience.
So,as there is no 'I' there cannot be a 'self'.
In order to keep on shining,the sun does not need to have the idea "I Am".
It shines perfectly without that idea.
There isn't any 'thing' that needs to work,All/This is as it Is,Simply perfect.
The Only Reality is Experience,Experience for and by no one.
Experience Without An Experiencer.
No 'thing' behind Experience.Only Experience Exists!
Great to 'Be-Here.' All there is is One Pop,Popping!
This thought/feeling is 'Being/Life' presently expressing as That-a thought/feeling.
Well,This Life isn't actually expressing as anything,it Simply Is as It Is-
Whatever the apparent appearance.
Whatever 'This' is,it Is.
There isn't any one or thing that experiences a thought/feeling,all there is is this
Experience- There isn't any-one or thing having this experience.
What is 'I' ?
There is no actual 'I' existing as a separate entity.
'I' is a thought/feeling,an experience,but there isn't an experiencer-
Only Experience.
So,as there is no 'I' there cannot be a 'self'.
In order to keep on shining,the sun does not need to have the idea "I Am".
It shines perfectly without that idea.
There isn't any 'thing' that needs to work,All/This is as it Is,Simply perfect.
The Only Reality is Experience,Experience for and by no one.
Experience Without An Experiencer.
No 'thing' behind Experience.Only Experience Exists!
Ilona
Sounds that you are seeing it.
Now look at the body and everything around. Does it exist? Does a forest exist if you are not there to experiance it?
Just examine the difference between what is real and what is imagined. Without word experience ;)
Now look at the body and everything around. Does it exist? Does a forest exist if you are not there to experiance it?
Just examine the difference between what is real and what is imagined. Without word experience ;)
OH!
Looking exists/ Seeing exists.
There are no 'actual things' that can be looked at or seen.
There isn't a 'someone' who looks/sees.
There isn't a 'me/I' that looks/sees.
If there is Looking/Seeing then 'that' is what Is.
If there is the appearance of an 'I' standing in a forest,then That
is the appearance,it appears that there is a 'someone' standing in
a forest,'apparently' seeing.
If this imaginary 'I' is not standing in the forest,then for that 'I' a
forest will not be 'seen'.
Reality is This that Is,whatever that is.
There are no 'actual things' that can be looked at or seen.
There isn't a 'someone' who looks/sees.
There isn't a 'me/I' that looks/sees.
If there is Looking/Seeing then 'that' is what Is.
If there is the appearance of an 'I' standing in a forest,then That
is the appearance,it appears that there is a 'someone' standing in
a forest,'apparently' seeing.
If this imaginary 'I' is not standing in the forest,then for that 'I' a
forest will not be 'seen'.
Reality is This that Is,whatever that is.
Ilona
Thanks for answer.
How about there are actual things and there is forest, only there is no you.
Tell me please, what is real? By real I mean that which is not affected by belief and does not dissapear as one stops believing in it. Look around, notice that there is objective reality here now.
Look at your hand. Is it real?
How about table, chair, monitor, are these objects in real world or in imagination, what do you see?
How about there are actual things and there is forest, only there is no you.
Tell me please, what is real? By real I mean that which is not affected by belief and does not dissapear as one stops believing in it. Look around, notice that there is objective reality here now.
Look at your hand. Is it real?
How about table, chair, monitor, are these objects in real world or in imagination, what do you see?
OH!
This that Is is Reality.
Seeing,forest,hand,table,chair and monitor are real.
But,only real in the sense that All that is is Presence,
Here,Now.
What is not real is a 'you',as a separate entity.
Seeing happens,but not for or by anyone.
There aren't any objects existing as actual separate 'things'.
All is This that IS,without a border,one seamless reality-
displaying as 'many',so to speak.
Draw a circle on a piece of paper,now erase the drawn line,
where has the circle gone.There never was a circle,the drawn
line was the mind trying to create an identity-an illusion-giving
itself a border where there isn't one.There was only ever the
Single piece of paper,A borderless piece.
"Objective reality!" Objectified by who/what?
Seeing,forest,hand,table,chair and monitor are real.
But,only real in the sense that All that is is Presence,
Here,Now.
What is not real is a 'you',as a separate entity.
Seeing happens,but not for or by anyone.
There aren't any objects existing as actual separate 'things'.
All is This that IS,without a border,one seamless reality-
displaying as 'many',so to speak.
Draw a circle on a piece of paper,now erase the drawn line,
where has the circle gone.There never was a circle,the drawn
line was the mind trying to create an identity-an illusion-giving
itself a border where there isn't one.There was only ever the
Single piece of paper,A borderless piece.
"Objective reality!" Objectified by who/what?
What is Oh! ?
OH!
Oh! is all there Is.
Ilona
You are joking, right?
What happens to planet earth and all life on it when Oh! dies?
What happens to planet earth and all life on it when Oh! dies?
OH!
Is it a joke or not?
Can Oh! actually die?
Appearances come and go.
Reality always Is.
Oh! is not a person who was born,will live and then die.
Oh! is an/the appearance of This.
Can Oh! actually die?
Appearances come and go.
Reality always Is.
Oh! is not a person who was born,will live and then die.
Oh! is an/the appearance of This.
Ilona
ok, oh!, let's look at reality from different angle. You say: Oh! is all there Is.
This is labelling of all that is/ life/ reality with label 'Oh!'
looks like you are identified with life, and although you speak words that point to truth, you do not see it.
why are you here?
what are you looking for by engaging in this duel?
what do you expect the liberation to be like? are you already liberated?
answer me this: are you life itself, or just a simple human animal lost in a head?
:)
OH!
"Ok, oh!, let's look at reality from different angle."
Yes,'good' idea!
Here,there is absolutely no identification with Oh!
Oh! is a projection of the mind,now seen through
by no one,seen for what it is-by no one- a projection,
a false belief.
There aren't any words that point to truth,All Is Truth.
There isn't 'anyone' here that sees Truth,there is only
Seeing."Seeing without a cause" - CH.
Why am 'I' here on this forum engaging in this dialogue/duel?
Who knows! -Who really cares-That's what's happening right
Here,right Now.
'I' may expect liberation to be like this or like that.
Reality doesn't give a damn about liberation.
All is Liberated,there isn't anywhere to go or anything to get.
"Answer me this: are you life itself."
What else is there -Only Life existing/expressing as it Is.
Whatever the appearance - 'someone' apparently liberated,
'someone' apparently not. The Presence of Life Is All there Is.
Yes,'good' idea!
Here,there is absolutely no identification with Oh!
Oh! is a projection of the mind,now seen through
by no one,seen for what it is-by no one- a projection,
a false belief.
There aren't any words that point to truth,All Is Truth.
There isn't 'anyone' here that sees Truth,there is only
Seeing."Seeing without a cause" - CH.
Why am 'I' here on this forum engaging in this dialogue/duel?
Who knows! -Who really cares-That's what's happening right
Here,right Now.
'I' may expect liberation to be like this or like that.
Reality doesn't give a damn about liberation.
All is Liberated,there isn't anywhere to go or anything to get.
"Answer me this: are you life itself."
What else is there -Only Life existing/expressing as it Is.
Whatever the appearance - 'someone' apparently liberated,
'someone' apparently not. The Presence of Life Is All there Is.
Ilona
Ok, let's make it simple.
There is no you at all in reality, as in zero.
Is it true?
Notice what comes up, thoughts, feelings?
Write down all that is noticed.
There is no you at all in reality, as in zero.
Is it true?
Notice what comes up, thoughts, feelings?
Write down all that is noticed.
OH!
Noticing a computer screen,a hand typing out some words,the taste
and smell of coffee,the sounds out on the street.
All there is is this Noticing.
Noticing the sense of an 'I' a 'self',seeing that this sense is nothing
other than the appearance of a string of thoughts/feelings.
The sense of a 'self' is contained in the thoughts/feelings.
Self/I amounts to no more than a thoughts/feelings.
The Noticing is alive/present,now.
Ilona
315 wrote:There is no you at all in reality, as in zero.
Is it true?
Is it true?
care to answer this?
Oh! wrote:Noticing the sense of an 'I' a 'self',seeing that this sense is nothing
other than the appearance of a string of thoughts/feelings.
other than the appearance of a string of thoughts/feelings.
if self exist, then yes, there is a sense of self. So if it doesn't then self can not be sensed, right?
imagine you have a tail, can you feel it? imagine it as real as your hand. now look, do you have a tail? (hope not, hehe) so can you really sense it? you can imagine the sense, but is it real tail in there?
so if you think that you are sensing self, isn't that justin your imagination? unquestioned assumption? check again!
Oh! wrote:The sense of a 'self' is contained in the thoughts/feelings.
close your eyes for a minute, feel what is there, see if you can find that feeling of aliveness, of being, "am". is it personal? notice what mind does at the same time: it labels experience and here you have a thought coming- 'it's sense of me/self'...
Oh! wrote:Self/I amounts to no more than a thoughts/feelings.
Does sense I/ self amounts to anything?
where do thoughts come from?
what influences them?
notice that there are thoughts that point to real things: table, chair, monitor, hand, coffee...
notice that there are thoughs that point to imaginary things, let's say unicorn, batman, santa, self...
can you see the difference in how some labels are pointing to nothing real?
What does label 'I' point to?
answer these questions as precise as you can.
OH!
O.k,now that the pretence at 'seeing' This has been exposed,
lets get this over with. :)
"There is no you at all in reality, as in zero.
Is it true?"-
Yes,this is true.No 'me/I/self can be found.There is only the looking
for the self.
"If you think that you are sensing self, isn't that just in your imagination?
Unquestioned assumption? Check again!"-
There is only the looking/checking.
"See if you can find that feeling of aliveness, of being,"am". Is it personal?"-
'I' can't find an actual 'aliveness' or an 'Am',that is personal to 'me'.
There is present only the looking for the feeling of aliveness.
"Does the sense I/self amount to anything?" -
No,there is only the presence of the sense I/Self.
"Where do thoughts come from?"-
They just appear,as if from Nowhere!
"What influences them?-
Whatever the attention is drawn to.
"Notice that there are thoughts that point to real things: table, chair, monitor, hand, coffee...
Notice that there are thoughts that point to imaginary things, let's say unicorn, batman, Santa, self...
Can you see the difference in how some labels are pointing to nothing real?" -
Attention can be drawn to real objects:Table,chair...
Attention can be drawn to imagination:I,you,dreams,fantasies,fear...
"What does the label 'I' point to? -
Nothing.
There is the seeing of a computer screen,the feel of a hand,a cup,the smell of coffee,
the taste of coffee,the sounds and so on.
The Actual presence of right Now as it IS,and all without an actual 'I/me experiencing
any of it.
:)
lets get this over with. :)
"There is no you at all in reality, as in zero.
Is it true?"-
Yes,this is true.No 'me/I/self can be found.There is only the looking
for the self.
"If you think that you are sensing self, isn't that just in your imagination?
Unquestioned assumption? Check again!"-
There is only the looking/checking.
"See if you can find that feeling of aliveness, of being,"am". Is it personal?"-
'I' can't find an actual 'aliveness' or an 'Am',that is personal to 'me'.
There is present only the looking for the feeling of aliveness.
"Does the sense I/self amount to anything?" -
No,there is only the presence of the sense I/Self.
"Where do thoughts come from?"-
They just appear,as if from Nowhere!
"What influences them?-
Whatever the attention is drawn to.
"Notice that there are thoughts that point to real things: table, chair, monitor, hand, coffee...
Notice that there are thoughts that point to imaginary things, let's say unicorn, batman, Santa, self...
Can you see the difference in how some labels are pointing to nothing real?" -
Attention can be drawn to real objects:Table,chair...
Attention can be drawn to imagination:I,you,dreams,fantasies,fear...
"What does the label 'I' point to? -
Nothing.
There is the seeing of a computer screen,the feel of a hand,a cup,the smell of coffee,
the taste of coffee,the sounds and so on.
The Actual presence of right Now as it IS,and all without an actual 'I/me experiencing
any of it.
:)
Experience Without An Experiencer.
Ilona
Cool. So how does it feel to be free?
OH!
Thank 'you' 315,thank you so much!
"Cool. So how does it feel to be free?" -
Ha! Ha! Ha!
There is an appreciation of the words "Nothing has changed...Everything has changed."
Everything is exactly the same except that there is now an absence of 'me'-
Well, there never was a 'me',that's what's seen.Really,really obvious!
That's all it is,there never was an actual 'me' experiencing,or to whom anything was
happening.ONLY HAPPENING.Presence without 'me'.The sense of there ever having
been a 'me' was always an imagining taken to be an actual truth.
Wow! One big sigh of relief.
Life just getting on,happening as it does.Freedom was/is always the case.
Free,light,open...simply present...now not just empty words,but Fact.
No loud laughter,just a smile and a gentle Ah!
Popped!
3/Free cheers for 315
:)
"Cool. So how does it feel to be free?" -
Ha! Ha! Ha!
There is an appreciation of the words "Nothing has changed...Everything has changed."
Everything is exactly the same except that there is now an absence of 'me'-
Well, there never was a 'me',that's what's seen.Really,really obvious!
That's all it is,there never was an actual 'me' experiencing,or to whom anything was
happening.ONLY HAPPENING.Presence without 'me'.The sense of there ever having
been a 'me' was always an imagining taken to be an actual truth.
Wow! One big sigh of relief.
Life just getting on,happening as it does.Freedom was/is always the case.
Free,light,open...simply present...now not just empty words,but Fact.
No loud laughter,just a smile and a gentle Ah!
Popped!
3/Free cheers for 315
:)
Ilona
Easy peasy pop!
Awesome!
Let's chat a bit tomorrow, for now let it settle in.
Much love and appreciation here too. I'm delighted for you Oh!
Big smile happening here too.
Awesome!
Let's chat a bit tomorrow, for now let it settle in.
Much love and appreciation here too. I'm delighted for you Oh!
Big smile happening here too.
..........Next day........
How is everything looking today? Is there any doubt at all?
Could you write a bit on what happened, how it happened, what is the self and how it works, what do you see when you look at humans, what would you say to somebody who is still looking and whatever else you want to share.
Please give us a rant about it :)
Much love!
Could you write a bit on what happened, how it happened, what is the self and how it works, what do you see when you look at humans, what would you say to somebody who is still looking and whatever else you want to share.
Please give us a rant about it :)
Much love!
OH!
Still smiling :)
If there where any doubt present,it would not belong to "me".
A rant from the 'other side' - so to speak.-
It just so happened that 'Once upon a time' "I" thought there was an "I" that
could go out into the 'world' and find the truth of "Who Am I?"
An "I" cannot be 'found' - Who would find it -it does not exist.
There is only the existence of Life happening as it Is.If there is the presence
of seeking for an "I" then that Is Life as it happens.
The world is real,the feeling/sense of "I" is real,but in reality there is no "I".
"I" is a story in imagination,a projection of the mind,an attachment to a phantom.
Life always exists perfectly well...ever present...freedom...in the absence of
an imagined personal "I".
Ah! Yes,the sun is always shining,even 'behind' the appearance of grey skies.
(There is no something behind this,there is Only This Life).
Experience is just here - Is Here.
Now what? As it happens,it's always Now.
What happened? One moment "I" am looking for answers,in the 'next' moment
no "I".Just the 'solid' actual existence of Life as it Is.Pure Experience in all it's
'apparent' variety.One Experiencing,but without an experiencer.
There was no cause to this 'seeing',it's just what happened-the current state of play.
Cause and effect seems to be an interpretation by the 'mind'.As if it where to say-
"Things can't just happen,there Has to be a cause that produces an effect."
This is what the 'mind' cannot grasp -The Actual Existence of Experience without
an experiencer.
The 'mind' tries to create a place/space for itself,this it calls "I/Me/Self".
Then there is a belief by the mind in this "I/Me/Self".
This belief can persist until the death of that particular body,but,it could
also happen that that belief can be seen through.There isn't a "Me/You/Self".
"What do you see when you look at humans?"-
'Everyone' is where they are!
"What would you say to somebody who is still looking?"-
Sounds paradoxical,but,"Take a proper look,is there really an actual YOU,or is there just
the looking for an imaginary You,is there really 'anyone' looking,or just Looking."
Only Love
If there where any doubt present,it would not belong to "me".
A rant from the 'other side' - so to speak.-
It just so happened that 'Once upon a time' "I" thought there was an "I" that
could go out into the 'world' and find the truth of "Who Am I?"
An "I" cannot be 'found' - Who would find it -it does not exist.
There is only the existence of Life happening as it Is.If there is the presence
of seeking for an "I" then that Is Life as it happens.
The world is real,the feeling/sense of "I" is real,but in reality there is no "I".
"I" is a story in imagination,a projection of the mind,an attachment to a phantom.
Life always exists perfectly well...ever present...freedom...in the absence of
an imagined personal "I".
Ah! Yes,the sun is always shining,even 'behind' the appearance of grey skies.
(There is no something behind this,there is Only This Life).
Experience is just here - Is Here.
Now what? As it happens,it's always Now.
What happened? One moment "I" am looking for answers,in the 'next' moment
no "I".Just the 'solid' actual existence of Life as it Is.Pure Experience in all it's
'apparent' variety.One Experiencing,but without an experiencer.
There was no cause to this 'seeing',it's just what happened-the current state of play.
Cause and effect seems to be an interpretation by the 'mind'.As if it where to say-
"Things can't just happen,there Has to be a cause that produces an effect."
This is what the 'mind' cannot grasp -The Actual Existence of Experience without
an experiencer.
The 'mind' tries to create a place/space for itself,this it calls "I/Me/Self".
Then there is a belief by the mind in this "I/Me/Self".
This belief can persist until the death of that particular body,but,it could
also happen that that belief can be seen through.There isn't a "Me/You/Self".
"What do you see when you look at humans?"-
'Everyone' is where they are!
"What would you say to somebody who is still looking?"-
Sounds paradoxical,but,"Take a proper look,is there really an actual YOU,or is there just
the looking for an imaginary You,is there really 'anyone' looking,or just Looking."
Only Love
No comments:
Post a Comment