Ilona,
Good morning. My name is Paul and I am hoping we can correspond. I am really trying to LOOK BUT it is still seemingly beyond my grasp. It is said it is so easy and obvious, but maybe I just don’t know how to LOOK.
CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME POINTERS? Can we work together?
Thanks
Ilona:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for emailing me. :)
I will help you through. No worries.
I understand from you emails, that you are ready to look and are willing to see what's this all about.
I will ask you questions and all you need to do is answer what feels 100% true. Honesty is the mayor helper.
Ok, where are you, what are you, where do you feel stuck?
Paul:
Thanks.
I guess the actually LOOKING. I can for the most part SEE that something other than me is seeing, hearing, etc. It may not be absolutely CLEAR, or else it would be obvious J
I guess the CONDITIONING IS SO INGRAIN as there being a Paul, that I can’t see the forest from the trees.
When you are looking, you are NOT LOOKING FOR SOMETHING (RIGHT?) But the problem with that it seems is that the mind LOOKS for an object or that something should immediately happen. I guess my STUCKNESS is needing to THINK that I will see something or it should be instantaneous.
Am I looking for something, or just NOTICE What is looking?
The finger pointing at the moon for example, “What is that really saying?”
I think this conditioning of SEPARATION is part of the problem. I can’t seem to grasp that I am not separate from anything. All is one flow
Ilona:
Hi paul
Your problem seems obvious. You think, that you need to see something that you do not see yet.
This feels real to you.
But, since there is no you in reality, "you" can not see it. "I" is a thought. It points to nothing.
Let's look at the thought itself.
What is it, where does it come from? Can you control thoughts, stop them?
I is a thought that precedes other thoughts when mind labels experience.
It comes with language.
I breath- rather then breathing is happening
I walk- rather than walking happening
I digest- digesting happening
I observe- observing is happening.
Mind labels experience as it is it's job, but you don't have to believe thoughts, do you.
Look, what is university? Is there such thing in reality or is it just a label to point to buildings, students, knowledge, all things that are real!
I is a label for thoughts about self.
So that I is just a thought. Label.
I is not looking.
Looking is happening at this moment.
It is happening by itself without the need of self.
Notice the obvious.
What do you see?
Paul:
"YOU" cannot see it. That is the obvious since there is no 'you' to see.
Everything is just APPARENTLY HAPPENING, but by no one or no thing. The 'I' thought points to nothing or no-thing.
Ok, but how do I make it the obvious? It seems for me so intellectual, so when you asked me "what do you see? Well, I see an intellectual understanding, and a 'me/Paul" doing that.
So, in a sense Ilona, even what is being said, is just happening, but there is no 'me' doing it. It is like walking, looking, etc all just happening, BY ITSELF, WITHOUT A NEED FOR A SELF/or I?
SO HOW DO I DEEPEN THIS. JUST KEEP LOOKING UNTIL IT DAWS ON ME?
.....
Another part of that is to LOOK and NOT THINK. Is this saying don't anayze or interpret, but to just SEE what is there. To Notice?
Ilona:
??
Talk to me.
Paul:
Ilona, good afternoon. YOU MEAN BUSINESS (THANKS)
Actually I was just reading the article A serious seeker breaks free. He sounds a lot like me.
I have been looking at what keeps me attached to the idea or thought of me? Like you said "it does feel real to me."
There is a pre-sumption that a me is typing on this keyboard, and yet when I look, yes, there does just seem to be fingers moving.
I get the impression what you were saying is that from the neck up, one cannot SEE anyone doing anything. There is no-thing, empty. There is no me in the form of a shape or image. I can see that. But I can't seem to own that I am NOT THE DOER, but I do own the doing of things. That is my dilemna
Like the breathing...it is just happening, but because I am so conditioned to believe that Paul is breathing, I assume it is me doing the breathing.
I think my STUCKNESS (resistance) is my need to WANTING TO CONTROL this process, and then ultimately to get some kind of approval. Hope that makes sense
Also there seems to be a lot of fear. Maybe its a fear of losing control, or not fully understanding the idea of lookng, and because of that there is a fear that perhaps I will be no more (and yet :) that is what I want. Or Do I?
When you said, thoughts are coming and going and then let it be revealed, I am assuming you are asking me to contemplate.
Anyway!, I can't tell you how much I feel I am on the right track and your wanting to go the mile with me
Ilona:
<<I can't seem to own that I am NOT THE DOER, but I do own the doing of things. That is my dilemma>>
Yes that is a dilemma, of course it is.
I tell you what- there is no I to own doing. It's just a thought that "there is me doing it".
Where does this thought come from? What is behind it?
Ok, sorry to be rude, but when you go to toilet or a piss, are you a pisser? Do you own that label?
Same with the breather. It's a habit.
What is nature of habit? What is it? It's a string of thought appearing by itself.
You are on the right track, of course. The resolution is near. Just trust the process.
Look at the fear, what is it protecting? What is behind? Can you see how fear is doing it's job as a mechanism of protection. Question is what needs to be protected?
There never you to control anything. All is happening no mater what thoughts you believe. Look, you can let go of control, as you have never been in control, as there is no self at all. Zero.
Write what comes up.
You are in the middle of crossing. Notice what is obvious.
Just look and write what you see.
:)
Paul:
<<Ok, sorry to be rude, but when you go to toilet or a piss, are you a pisser? Do you own that label? >>
Ilona
This was powerful for me. It made me smile, but then I felt a slight shift as if "Yes of course, I don't claim ownership for that." :)
And when you keep saying what is BEHIND, I feel or see no-thing or empty
I mean when you really LOOK there is almost a feeling or something of a smile or yes! or even an a bit of emptiness or lonliness? I don't know. There really is nothing that is protecting the fear, but a thought or memory I guess, but nothing tangible to say a 'me' since the me is seemingly a collection or string of thought.
I have been doing a lot of watching or looking like when an itch happens I immediately SEE that it is JUST HAPPENING, but no one BEHIND the happening.Or when I go to scratch it is automatic as the result of the itch, but there was not a pre-ordained person who decided to scratch or even to create the itch.
I was watching a plant and began to see understand the verse of the Bible that says "look how much more our Father in heaven takes care of the lillies of the field, who do not tarry or weep for anything.
I stopped on the keyboard for a few seconds and my hand automatically went to my face FOR NO REASON, NO CHOICE.
OBVIOUSLY whatever the mystery is, it is controling and creating spontaneously.Letting go? Well that is still a tough one. What seems to behind that is not wanting to give up the control as if, intereesting, my life dependend on it.
Talk to you soon, and thanks. This feels good!...and scary.
Ilona:
<<Letting go? Well that is still a tough one. What seems to behind that is not wanting to give up the control as if, intereesting, my life dependend on it.>>
Who/ what is not letting go?
Is there something that needs to DO letting go?
What is it?
Who's is life?
Mystery is not controlling. Control happens as part of flow. It's like a creative unfoldment. Can you see?
Life. Just. Is. :)
Paul:
Good morning Ilona,
I guess I can't see.
There is seemingly still a part of me that thinks it has to Do something in order to get it or to it.
I am too much into my head I guess
Life, I think you are sayingis seamless with no one at the helm. It is unfolding naturally with no mistakes, just as it is....all is well, perfect, complete just as it is.
But those are still words. I am looking but the mind is still processing separation I assume. I try to visualize 'no-thing" or emptiness, and maybe I am still full of concepts.
Darn...what is behind the resistance to just surrendering? I seem to be focusing in the wrong direction.
Let me ask you a question? What did you do (although I am sure you have said it) to really look? I know I am impatient and probably need to relax, but where am I missing it?
Everything you said today I get intellectually (thinking/thinker), but I KNOW the revealing does not come from that.
Where am I missing the mark?
Can You see? Can You see? Even that is a pointer. Like "the finger pointing to the moon', is not the moon. The person viewing or seeing is not the seer
frustrating?
Ilona:
Great!
I want you to look at the real possibility that there is no self at all in life. There is no you driving the body. No you thinking thoughts.
What feeling arises, notice that frustration and identify the fear, what is there?
Can you look at that fear, bring it closer? What do you see?
Paul:
A helplessness, like being out of control or not in control
The fear is just seeminly a feeling, or a thought. I mean it really does not have an 'entity' unless it comes from a me (Paul), and if there is no power in feelings or thoughts, then there this is no power in a 'me'.
The wall is real, body is real, they are tangible things. But the self is imaginary as it has no intrinic existence.
But How do you look for something that isn't there? and of course who is looking
Ilona:
Hi Paul,
What's going on?
Talk to me.
Paul:
Good morning Ilona,
Been busy and processing.
Trying to Walk and look to see that there is no me.
Conversing with my wife and acknowledging there is no me.
I am starting to also see how I include an "I" in everything I do, say
and be. Even while typing there is no me. But this is still in my head.
I am trying to set the intention (Try/me :) to know this is going to
happen, but I am impatient and frustrated
No Santa clause, no me, no moon, no entity thing controller.
Intellectually, I get it but I keep looking I guess for an aha or
experience to happen.
Letting go, surrender has always been an issue, so I am still in the
thinking mode and not looking mode.
I feel it is so simple but 'I' is getting in the way. I am still
consumed that I am doing something or need to do or experience
something, and yet I am there in mind only. Nothing is really missing
for me to drop the I because there really is nothing to get rid of. That
is my process, and yet no process.
Is there really a shift to wait for? I wonder cause that only keeps me/I
waiting.
Frustrated. I appreciate you (no-you :).
Hey you start early talking to me...thanks
Ilona:
Hey Paul.
It is happening already! You are looking right at it.
You seeing it, but there is waiting for something to happen.
Relax, nothing will happen.
No angels gonna sing, no download, no boom. Just a very subtle shift
that you may not even notice, at first....
There is a moon, btw. And all that is real. Life is. It's all around
and you are expression of life happening.
What is intention? Is there intender? Is there a you that controls
anything that is happening smoothly already?
You are not looking, looking is happening.
Seeing is happening too, just by itself.
Notice the obvious.
There us nothing to see other than it already IS.
Paul:
Good morning Ilona,
Been busy and processing.
Trying to Walk and look to see that there is no me.
Conversing with my wife and acknowledging there is no me.
I am starting to also see how I include an "I" in everything I do, say
and be. Even while typing there is no me. But this is still in my head.
I am trying to set the intention (Try/me :) to know this is going to
happen, but I am impatient and frustrated
No Santa clause, no me, no moon, no entity thing controller.
Intellectually, I get it but I keep looking I guess for an aha or
experience to happen.
Letting go, surrender has always been an issue, so I am still in the
thinking mode and not looking mode.
I feel it is so simple but 'I' is getting in the way. I am still
consumed that I am doing something or need to do or experience
something, and yet I am there in mind only. Nothing is really missing
for me to drop the I because there really is nothing to get rid of. That
is my process, and yet no process.
Is there really a shift to wait for? I wonder cause that only keeps me/I
waiting.
Frustrated. I appreciate you (no-you :).
Hey you start early talking to me...thanks (1:12 am)
.....
Question and good morning.
Am I trying to HARD?
I mean if it is so obvious, and like santa claus it OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T
EXIST, why do I still feel like up am still hunting or seeking, or
rather who is seeking.
It is plain as there is nothing BEHIND what is generating ALL THAT IS.
No one has ever seen it, or felt it, but the BELIEF IS STILL PREVAILENT.
Ilona:
Good morning :)
Yes, Paul,
What is behind feeling " trying"?
"I am trying too hard." is a thought effortlessly appearing.
There is no you trying, but there is feeling of trying rising up in
awareness and that is all there is.
Seeing yet?
Paul:
EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE....but hell no.
Who is seeing?
What is behind the trying is NO ONE, but the feeling seems to translate
into someone! A Me or Paul.
There is Awareness yes, just awareness but is that IT? I feel like there
has to be something more
It all appears on Awareness. Even me or Paul, but....gosh I must be
looking to much into the content.
Nothing is BEHIND it, but and so just let it go?
All is ARISING and so let it go?
Ilona:
No, no seeing yet...
Close your eyes, feel "I am" feel being, the feeling that has always
been here, and that is it.
Notice awareness aware of "I am".
Notice thoughts appearing as labels.
Notice that there is no noticer, but noticing happening.
:)
I'm just putting a new blog entry, check it out. It's about Eric.
Paul:
Ok.
The Awareness is there. It is obvious that there is no one there but
perhaps the mind is saying it is too simple, there must be more to it
than that.
I get this tingling feeling or aha! When an it happens, but I know you
can't trust your feelings entirely. So there is a second guesing
I am THERE! I just need to acknowledge that there is nothing to gain.
Ilona:
Nothing to gain, but lose illusion.
Very simple indeed.
What is Paul?
What is real?
Is there a self in real life at all? No!
Answer there questions please. As truthful as possible.
Paul:
Paul is a label, nothing more but given to some apparent 'thing'
Life is real in appearance, but like Paul is a label. Things exist, but
they are apparent existence
Self is a thought, having no reality in life
Ilona:
Seems that you are through :)
How does it feel?
What was the last bit that pushed you over?
Could you write some more just to clarify if there is any doubt at all,
look a bit deeper, write more how "Paul" operates in the world. I want
to be sure that you see clearly. Just rant about it please.
Paul:
Ok, I will rant.
There is STILL DOUBT Ilona. I can readily see that there is no me,
meaning it is just a label, just an image that can't be verified. It is
like on one of your forum's you said, "when we were born we were given a
name, label, and essentially a sense of self," and I get that, but the
mind is still wanting to make something more tangible, like a shift or
whathever.
In a sense it is still conceptual still I guess, and yet I find myself
(?) automatically questioning who is doing this or who is this coming
to. Paul is seemingly operating from the premise of a doer that he
cannot find or label, but the habit still persists.
There really is nothing unless I label it as such which implies there
really has never been anything at all. Just a feeling, a thought.
Ilona:
Please report back. further, deeper, now.
Paul:
It is clear when you really look that there is no one behind the words.
Even in feelings you have to ask yourself where do they come from. There
is nothing there, the self does not exist. What exists is the residue
from the habit of thinking there is an image known as Paul, but that too
is just a story, just a thought.
I am or was never who I thought I was, still a lingering of a center.
Who is it that goes deeper, I mean if there is no one there, how can a
non-self go deeper?
Ilona:
Brilliant! I see you made it trough, or should I say, it happened ;)
Yes, you are seeing it clearly and I'm really happy for you.
Thank you very much for looking! May I use this for my blog, of course I
won't mention your email, just the name.
I just needed that last bit of confirmation that you see how self has
never existed.
This is the end of old life and beginning to new, seeing through the
illusion starts the liberation. :) there is still further and deeper,
but it's no more you doing any of it.
Paul:
Deeper I mean more clarity. It's when old patterns start falling of, old
habits, conditioning getting resolved and system rebalanced. Of course
there is no you doing it, but it comes in a form of "falling". There
will be still challenges an happenings, life does not stop, but caries
on as usual. This is just the beginning. But a glorious one, where you
can enjoy the ride without driver.
how did you find me?
Lots of love to you, Paul.
Paul:
Yes you may!
But even though I do feel its clear, I would just like to know how do
you deepen it or is it the same process. Hope that hasn't messed up the
confirmation for you!
Where did I hear? I went on a search for blogs and read from one of your
responses to someone and looked your blog up. Actually you made more
clear and not the abusive stuff, and so you resonated with me. SO THANK
YOU!
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