Eric:
Hi Ilona, could you please guide me, i have looked and seen that there is no 'me' which is running this body, no me which is thinking this thoughts, no real me found anywhere - and yet there is still this felt sense of a 'me', something in charge and running the show, especially when there are difficult situations or the body has severe health problems, then there seems to be a strong contraction - i am really tired of this whole thing and would like to resolve it once and for all.
Would be grateful for some guidance. Thank you so much and many greetings
Eric
Ilona:
Hi Eric.
Thanks for email.
Of course I can guide you and we get this thing sorted once and for all.
I will be asking some questions and you need to answer with complete honesty.
The sense of "me" that you are talking about is the feeling "I am" which has always been here and never changes, + labelling of the mind.
Could you look at thought itself with the thought and tell me what you see:
Are you in control of thoughts?
Where do they come from?
What is their function?
What is behind thought?
Just answer me when you know answers with 100% certainty. No rush, have a good look and when you are ready- shoot.
Eric:
Thanks Ilona for the quick reply.
here are my observations:
a) definitely no control of thoughts.
b) they just arise out of nowhere.
c) there function seem to be to enable this organism to navigate thru this world but also to protect it.
d) if i look, i only find emptiness.
Ilona:
Perfect.
Now look at the thought "I"
It is also, just a thought, a label, that is not outside the flow of thoughts that are running freely and unstoppable.
It's a label, that is used in language to point to something.
What is thought "I" pointing to?
Eric:
Well, to answer this honestly I would have to say that it doesn't point to anything at all, after all I'm not the body or the thoughts or the feelings, sensations, so to what can this I thought point too, it is just another thought with no counterpart in reality, but seeing this, doesn't seem to change anything.............
Ilona:
It's seeing it intellectually. You get it that I does not point to anything, it's just a thought, yes. It has no power. Just a label.
Seeing this, allow a thought that there is no self at all in real life. Is it possible? Is it true?
What comes up?
Eric:
Yes, Ilona, it is true! but then, this is just another thought. This is crazy, seeing this or not is just a thought pattern, next to it life just goes on, there can not be a personal 'me' in any of it, it is just not possible, I mean, Life just IS and it is one movement so how can there be a 'me' standing apart from it. Something is eluding me here, something still seems to be held here and doesn't want to release it and it doesn't seem to be on a thought level. It's almost like I am waiting here for a release, a letting go, but then, how can something be released which is not there in the first place?? No idea where to go from here, something seems very close and obvious and yet.............???
Thank you so much for all your help and time, really very grateful for this.
Ilona:
Hi Eric,
Yes! Yes! You are right there!
No, there is no "me", just life flowing feely, including thoughts, that label the experience. Has there ever been "me"?
There won't be any boom, the shift is so subtle, that you may not even notice it.
It's like if you believed that Santa is real as a child and then you found out it wasn't. Nothing really changed, only illusion of Santa being real fell of. It's that kind of thing. And once it's seen, it can not be unseen.
So what is Eric?
Give me a full description, just state the obvious.
Much love :)
Eric:
Yes Ilona, thank you so much, of course there is no 'me', never was and never will be, just life moving in ever changing patterns, nothing really changes because it was always like that. Just LIFE and certainly nobody living it or doing it. The remaining thing is, that there is a strong felt sense of a ??? presence or being or whatever (do not want to use any spiritual platitudes), but undoubtedly there is this strong sense of ????? and it is always there and never ever changes but this is certainly not a personal presence or being, it is just there, vast and empty and yet also full of everything...........is there still a deception about something here???? do not think so...but anyway, thank you so much Ilona, you cleared up a lot of things for me, it was so good to have you there as a kind of mirror and i feel a lot of respect, love, gratitude for the work you are doing.....thank you, thank you and much love to you.
Ilona:
Eric, I'm delighted for you that seeing happened, yey!!
we just need to go through a couple of bits before I let you go.
Sense ???? Is "I am". Sense of being, it's unshakeable and yes, it is always here now. When you close your eyes it can be felt clearly. It's not gonna go away ever.
Can you write now answers to these questions:
What is Eric
What is real
What is self.
Eric:
a) Eric is a character trait, learned, habitual thought and feeling patterns, genetic imprints, very much running on auto-pilot.
b) Real is what IS, before the overlay of concepts and labels.
c) Don't know exactly in what way you use the word 'self', if you mean a 'personal self', then that would be only a thought, if you mean it in a broader sense, then that would be what i wrote before, this presence or what you called 'I am'.
Ilona:
Just look deeper at the "self"
Is there a self in real life at all?
You get it right that it's a word, what does it point to? You can see clearer than what you wrote.
:)
Eric:
To what does the word self point to in real life...well to nothing really. If i speak to you about the tree in front of my window you will know what i mean, tree is just a label but it points to some real thing, like this body sitting here or the glass on the table or the pen next to the computer...but self??? no self can be found in real life, it just points to ...nothing real. It's just a word but empty of any substance. There is this body, there is the thing called Eric with all its likes and dislikes but there is just no self here which is in charge or doing all these things, it just can not be found once it is looked for and really examined.. as you nicely wrote about Santa, as a child Santa seems real but once we grow up and really see that Santa is not real, we can never ever believe in Santa as real...that's about how if goes with the self, unexamined it seems real but once really looked for the seeing of the unreality of it is unavoidable.....
Ilona:
Congratulations and welcome to the living free :))))!!!!!
Thank you very much, it was great popping. May I use it for my blog?
Have you noticed any change in real life yet? And what was the last push you needed?
Much love.
Eric:
Thanks so much Ilona, yes of course you can use it for your blog but please remove any reference to my email address.I don't know, there was not really any particular thing which pushed me over, it was more like a growing clarity happened during our conversation and then it was more like: 'yes, of course it is like this'', like a big YES. Just more clarity now, more relaxed, more space, but i think it was already pretty thin and so there was not this big shift.
Hi Ilona, could you please guide me, i have looked and seen that there is no 'me' which is running this body, no me which is thinking this thoughts, no real me found anywhere - and yet there is still this felt sense of a 'me', something in charge and running the show, especially when there are difficult situations or the body has severe health problems, then there seems to be a strong contraction - i am really tired of this whole thing and would like to resolve it once and for all.
Would be grateful for some guidance. Thank you so much and many greetings
Eric
Ilona:
Hi Eric.
Thanks for email.
Of course I can guide you and we get this thing sorted once and for all.
I will be asking some questions and you need to answer with complete honesty.
The sense of "me" that you are talking about is the feeling "I am" which has always been here and never changes, + labelling of the mind.
Could you look at thought itself with the thought and tell me what you see:
Are you in control of thoughts?
Where do they come from?
What is their function?
What is behind thought?
Just answer me when you know answers with 100% certainty. No rush, have a good look and when you are ready- shoot.
Eric:
Thanks Ilona for the quick reply.
here are my observations:
a) definitely no control of thoughts.
b) they just arise out of nowhere.
c) there function seem to be to enable this organism to navigate thru this world but also to protect it.
d) if i look, i only find emptiness.
Ilona:
Perfect.
Now look at the thought "I"
It is also, just a thought, a label, that is not outside the flow of thoughts that are running freely and unstoppable.
It's a label, that is used in language to point to something.
What is thought "I" pointing to?
Eric:
Well, to answer this honestly I would have to say that it doesn't point to anything at all, after all I'm not the body or the thoughts or the feelings, sensations, so to what can this I thought point too, it is just another thought with no counterpart in reality, but seeing this, doesn't seem to change anything.............
Ilona:
It's seeing it intellectually. You get it that I does not point to anything, it's just a thought, yes. It has no power. Just a label.
Seeing this, allow a thought that there is no self at all in real life. Is it possible? Is it true?
What comes up?
Eric:
Yes, Ilona, it is true! but then, this is just another thought. This is crazy, seeing this or not is just a thought pattern, next to it life just goes on, there can not be a personal 'me' in any of it, it is just not possible, I mean, Life just IS and it is one movement so how can there be a 'me' standing apart from it. Something is eluding me here, something still seems to be held here and doesn't want to release it and it doesn't seem to be on a thought level. It's almost like I am waiting here for a release, a letting go, but then, how can something be released which is not there in the first place?? No idea where to go from here, something seems very close and obvious and yet.............???
Thank you so much for all your help and time, really very grateful for this.
Ilona:
Hi Eric,
Yes! Yes! You are right there!
No, there is no "me", just life flowing feely, including thoughts, that label the experience. Has there ever been "me"?
There won't be any boom, the shift is so subtle, that you may not even notice it.
It's like if you believed that Santa is real as a child and then you found out it wasn't. Nothing really changed, only illusion of Santa being real fell of. It's that kind of thing. And once it's seen, it can not be unseen.
So what is Eric?
Give me a full description, just state the obvious.
Much love :)
Eric:
Yes Ilona, thank you so much, of course there is no 'me', never was and never will be, just life moving in ever changing patterns, nothing really changes because it was always like that. Just LIFE and certainly nobody living it or doing it. The remaining thing is, that there is a strong felt sense of a ??? presence or being or whatever (do not want to use any spiritual platitudes), but undoubtedly there is this strong sense of ????? and it is always there and never ever changes but this is certainly not a personal presence or being, it is just there, vast and empty and yet also full of everything...........is there still a deception about something here???? do not think so...but anyway, thank you so much Ilona, you cleared up a lot of things for me, it was so good to have you there as a kind of mirror and i feel a lot of respect, love, gratitude for the work you are doing.....thank you, thank you and much love to you.
Ilona:
Eric, I'm delighted for you that seeing happened, yey!!
we just need to go through a couple of bits before I let you go.
Sense ???? Is "I am". Sense of being, it's unshakeable and yes, it is always here now. When you close your eyes it can be felt clearly. It's not gonna go away ever.
Can you write now answers to these questions:
What is Eric
What is real
What is self.
Eric:
a) Eric is a character trait, learned, habitual thought and feeling patterns, genetic imprints, very much running on auto-pilot.
b) Real is what IS, before the overlay of concepts and labels.
c) Don't know exactly in what way you use the word 'self', if you mean a 'personal self', then that would be only a thought, if you mean it in a broader sense, then that would be what i wrote before, this presence or what you called 'I am'.
Ilona:
Just look deeper at the "self"
Is there a self in real life at all?
You get it right that it's a word, what does it point to? You can see clearer than what you wrote.
:)
Eric:
To what does the word self point to in real life...well to nothing really. If i speak to you about the tree in front of my window you will know what i mean, tree is just a label but it points to some real thing, like this body sitting here or the glass on the table or the pen next to the computer...but self??? no self can be found in real life, it just points to ...nothing real. It's just a word but empty of any substance. There is this body, there is the thing called Eric with all its likes and dislikes but there is just no self here which is in charge or doing all these things, it just can not be found once it is looked for and really examined.. as you nicely wrote about Santa, as a child Santa seems real but once we grow up and really see that Santa is not real, we can never ever believe in Santa as real...that's about how if goes with the self, unexamined it seems real but once really looked for the seeing of the unreality of it is unavoidable.....
Ilona:
Congratulations and welcome to the living free :))))!!!!!
Thank you very much, it was great popping. May I use it for my blog?
Have you noticed any change in real life yet? And what was the last push you needed?
Much love.
Eric:
Thanks so much Ilona, yes of course you can use it for your blog but please remove any reference to my email address.I don't know, there was not really any particular thing which pushed me over, it was more like a growing clarity happened during our conversation and then it was more like: 'yes, of course it is like this'', like a big YES. Just more clarity now, more relaxed, more space, but i think it was already pretty thin and so there was not this big shift.
Thanks again Ilona, incredible what you are doing.!! If there would be a me who would believe in angels i would say you are one...
Ilona:
Thank you. I feel huge wave of appreciation here happening :) <3
Yes, you were right on edge, made my work easy.
All the best to you, Eric, if ever want to chat, do not hesitate. Always ready to help if needed.
Eric:
Thanks my friend, this is great...and all the best to you too...well, much more than all the best.
Ilona:
Thank you. I feel huge wave of appreciation here happening :) <3
Yes, you were right on edge, made my work easy.
All the best to you, Eric, if ever want to chat, do not hesitate. Always ready to help if needed.
Eric:
Thanks my friend, this is great...and all the best to you too...well, much more than all the best.
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