Sunday, 29 September 2013

Lakshmi: There Is NOONE...Oh My God!!


Lakshmi
Jul 27

Hello dear Ilona,

I am Lakshmi from Hyderabad, India. I have been going through the articles in your blog for quite sometime. I am also looking but may be not deep, not sure!!
I was waiting for you to help me but  few weeks ago you were not available. I even asked my cousin, Tarun to help me connect to you.
Can you please guide and help me for the shift.

Regards,
Lakshmi  

Ilona
Jul 27

Hi Lakshmi.

Thank you for email.
Yes we can have a conversation, now is a good time.

Tell me a bit about your journey and where you are at the moment. What are you looking for, what do you expect from this process, what do you think this will give you.

Take your time to write down all expectations and find those hidden ones too. Honesty is the key here.

Looking forward to hear from you.
Kind regards

Lakshmi
Jul 29

Hi Ilona,
As I said earlier, since the time Tarun introduced me to this technique, I have been trying to look at things around and yes, I could never find a separate "I" existing and it's always a thought. I am at this stage. I am able to appreciate the labeling the mind does all the time.
I am looking for "I” still.....expecting that i should feel light and easy sometime, may be i am not looking enough so not feeling it right away.
My expectations from this process are like i should be able to enjoy life, should be able to say that life is beautiful as many realized people said it after they got awakened to this truth of life, to be in the happy state irrespective of the on-going life.
I have a habit of reacting to everything around soon so i silently keep expecting this quality of mine to change after this process.....
I hope i spoke with honesty ,
Thanks and many regards,
lakshmi.

Ilona
Jul 30

Hi Lakshmi.

As I said earlier,since the time Tarun introduced me to this technique,i have been trying to look at things around and yes,i could never find a separate "I" existing and its always a thought.
 What is that you find when looking for the I?

I am looking for "I" still.....expecting that i should feel light and easy sometime ,may be i am not looking enough so not feeling it right away.
 What is the first I here, that is looking for the I?

My expectations from this process are like i should be able to enjoy life,should be able to say that life is beautiful as many realized people said it after they got awakened to this truth of life.,
 That's all right :)

to be in the happy state irrespective of the on-going life.
This is not realistic. There is no happy ever after. Life goes on as it does and things happen. It's not about a happy state at all. It's about seeing what is already obvious. 

If you expect that seeing no self is going to give you an eternal bliss, it's just a fantasy. 

I have a habit of reacting to everything around soon so i silently keep expecting this quality of mine to change after this process.....
 Reactions happen when buttons are pressed.  When there are wounds, unresolved issues, repressed feelings, of course, reactions will happen.

I hope i spoke with honesty,
Thank you.


Before we go further, you got to leave all expectations behind. It is not what you expect at all.  Mind can never imagine. And having expectations is trying to fit what is seen into the frame of what it should look like. 

Ok, tell me what comes up, when you let this thought in-

There is no I at all, no separate self, no entity that is in charge of this peace if life, no manager, no controller, no doer, no thinker, no watcher. All there is is life flowing freely as one movement.

Write what reactions to this statement come up.

Sending love.

Lakshmi
Jul 30

Hi Ilona,
what is it that i find when i am looking for I?
I find body, mind, senses exist and doing their job but can’t find an "I" existing. i can see things existing everywhere around but can’t see any I.

What is the first I when looking for I?
Well, i really don’t know but looks like this body, mind complex is the" I" which is looking for an I.....
The mind which is working as "I"??!!

My reactions when i read the statement

I feel shocked, surprised, I feel it's such a joke that there is no self existing, feels like laughing aloud.
feel sad, depressed too, feel painful
feel sick,
feel" then, what now?"
oh my god
How could this be?
This is what i feel as of now.

Love,
Lakshmi.

Ilona
Jul 30

Yeah, it's very simple and not even hidden.
Write more, what do you notice.

Was there ever an I there?

Sending love

Lakshmi
Aug 1

Hi Ilona,
Yes, there is no "I" wherever i see, but yes the "I" THAT IS USUALLY FELT IS THE MIND WITH THIS BODY PROBABLY.
It is very strange to see the affairs happening around. Every concept, movement around revolves around this so called "I"
So much of identification which only gives temporary states of happiness, grief and all other emotions. What are all these faiths, beliefs, relationships for? when there is no "I" existing...
Can illusion of "I" be so powerful that it can dictate everything around?
Its relatively easily to LOOK when i am in a happy or neutral state but LOOKING is so difficult in angry or a sad state or in diseased or suffering state..
Only body, mind, senses, memory exist and are felt and are functioning all the time in the day today affairs.
From the childhood till the present moment all that which is registered through the senses in the memory  is used for living, working, growing etc
Emotions, behavioral patterns, movements all are happening from the stored memory, conditioning....
Noone seems to be having any control over the inputs and the outputs of living and the life....
Everything is just happening and you are a part of it..
like a dry leaf which fell off from the tree into the flowing water....

Lakshmi
Aug 3

Hi Ilona, whatever I look at I feel that other than the existing fact, a picture or the sound there is constant labeling of the mind that goes on and on, the silence is broken with the constant chattering of the mind. the thoughts keep on coming from somewhere, when senses are doing their job, the



thoughts come from our saved memory, past, conditioning, expectations etc .   There was never an "I" because the "I" that was there when I was child was the label to this body mind complex which totally is changed and different from what exists now. This can't be "I”. Was there never any "I"? Thoughts, feelings, emotions, actions, reactions are happening as a game, as a sequence, as a jigsaw puzzle. it is just happening, going on and on. Noone seems to be having any control. When there is no "I"...then there is only LIFE going on...

Ilona
Aug 3

Hi Lakshmi.

Hi Ilona, whatever I look at I feel that other than the existing
fact, a picture or the sound there is constant labeling of the mind
that goes on and on, the silence is broken with the constant chattering of the mind.
Yes, there is a voice talking, labeling everything and telling stories.

the thoughts keep on coming from somewhere,
Take a good look- where are thoughts coming from? What is behind them? Is there a thinker?

when senses are doing their job, the thoughts come from our saved
memory, past, conditioning, expectations etc.
So it appears, but have a closer look. Is there 'stored memory' in your experience? Is there past? Future? Is there a container that contains thoughts?

Is there anyone that the voice is talking to? Is anyone listening? Are you the voice that keeps talking?

Examine this closely and write to me the answers that feel true to each question.
  
Sending love.

Lakshmi
Aug 10

Hi Ilona,
Been busy last few days. but looking most of the time and its been a very lovely experience of feeling light. no emotion seem to be staying for long. the answers for the doubts that come up seem to be effortlessly flowing in and making it easy...
it feels too good, trust me!
will write to you in more detail in next 2 days
Thanks,
Regards,
Lakshmi.

Ilona
Aug 10

Sounds lovely!
Tell me more :)

Lakshmi
Aug 12

True, the life seems to happen....
going on and on..
but this mind takes the charge, labels and tells stories all the time. It does appear there is a THINKER but that is again the mind which is saying i believe. The body with mind and senses is the thinker, actor, feeler, reactor and all looks like it projects and reacts, imagines, creates....yes!
because otherwise there is noone.!!!!
The world, the people, the relationships, their qualities looks like jigsaw puzzle pieces fitting into each other and collectively appearing as the world around..
There is no THINKER except the interference and chattering of the mind all the time,...
Oh god!!! but the identification is too much that it appears as the only real thing existing.. and spins a web of world around that "I"
But, Yes when i look it seems to be clear.
In spite of all this still it becomes difficult to look in sad moods....so called the hurt moods and the sad moods.... but yes the answer does come almost immediately..
All the time the question comes who is there to hurt and who is there to get hurt....
Vowwww!!!
Is this True????
Is it getting clearer?

Anyways, Thanks Ilona!!!
Regards,

Ilona
Aug 12

Hi Lakshmi.
True,the life seems to happen....
going on and on..
but this mind takes the charge, labels and tells stories all the time.
That is it's job, one of the functions is labeling everything, describing experience. It recognizes what is seen, heard, experienced.

It does appear there is a THINKER but that is again the mind which is saying i believe. The body with mind and senses is the thinker, actor, feeler, reactor and all looks like it projects and reacts, imagines, creates....yes! 
So it appears, but is it true, really?

because otherwise there is noone.!!!!
Yes, there is no one. It's not that something is absent, there is nothing there, emptiness.

but the identification is too much that it appears as the only real thing existing. And spins a web of world around that "I"
What is I? Take a closer look.

But, Yes when i look it seems to be clear.
See, every time you look it's clear.  So keep looking in every situation where it appears that there is a doer, choose, manager, etc. each identification is an invitation to look deeper. 

In spite of all this still it becomes difficult to look in sad moods....
The thing with feelings is that all they want is to be felt fully and openly. There is no need to analyse feelings. It's an energetic thing going on. When you name the emotion it appears solid. When you don't name it, it's a movement of sensations in the body. Feel is as it comes, when it comes and it will pass quickly. You don't need to do anything else. Just feel.

so called the hurt moods and the sad moods....but yes the answer does come almost immediately..
All the time the question comes who is there to hurt and who is there to get hurt....
There is no who. So asking who? question is in itself creating an illusion.  Is there a feeler? Is there an I here right now? Is there a doer of this action (reading right now)

Is it getting clearer? 
Yes! Keep digging. 
Much love.

Lakshmi
Aug 16

Hi Ilona,
There seem to be nothing  existing other than this body mind complex
and the world just runs on the constant chattering of the mind
MIND, yes, THE MIND is the one that runs the world nothing else is present...
the nonstop stories, expectations, chattering, commentary, of the mind that’s happening...
Everything that’s happening is just with this mind that’s talking,
the mind orders and the body reacts...
The mind is conditioned day after day and it talks.....
Every being is a complex of body, mind and senses together..

No there is no doer to this action of mine right now, whether its reading the mail, typing it. Everything is happening...
There is continuous happening and all else is the commentary of the mind, not real....

Thanks Ilona,
LOVE,

Lakshmi
Aug 17

The "I" is just a thought from the MIND
This thought is the strongest that can ever happen...
and then the drama of the mind unfolds around this "I'
Its just too much...
The world is but the combination of our thoughts, words, actions...
thoughts mostly look like coming from somewhere not known....

Ilona
Aug 17

There seem to be nothing existing other than this body mind complex
Really? So body exists and nothing else does?
Interesting.

and the world just runs on the constant chattering of the mind
MIND ,yes, THE MIND is the one that runs the world ,nothing else is present...
 What is this mind you are talking about? What does word mind point to?

the nonstop stories, expectations, chattering, commentary, of the mind that’s happening...
Are stories all there is? Take a look at what is underneath the stories. Does experience need stories in order to be happening?

Test with senses. When you taste something, does experience of tasting require a story to make it happen?

Get out of the head into sensations and see what is there. 

Sending love

Ilona
Aug 17

The "I" is just a thought from the MIND
This thought is the strongest that can ever happen...
No it is not.  It's an empty thought. What is that makes it strong?

The world is but the combination of our thoughts, words, actions...
The thoughts about world create an image. But there is something else here besides mind created image. What is here now? Take a Look.

Thoughts mostly look like coming from somewhere not known....
And take a good look, where thoughts are coming from.  Look till you see. 

Lakshmi
Aug 17

No, the experience doesn't need any stories... experience of tasting doesn't need a story definitely.
The experience is going on and will go on without all this commentary
The mind i meant means is the bundle of thoughts..
The body i meant is this physical body which i can see with the senses..
the sensations are happening and it is happening, no stories or anything required for this.
The "I" is just an empty thought but gets stronger with the stories, desires, expectations etc
yes, otherwise it is an empty thought.
will keep writing ,
thanks, Lakshmi..

Ilona
Aug 18

The mind i meant means is the bundle of thoughts..
What is a bundle of thoughts? Is that not just another thought?
Check if there is some kind of container that holds thoughts in a bundle?

The body i meant is this physical body which i can see with the senses..
Have a good look, what is the I that sees? What is seeing? What is looking? Is there a line between I and senses in experience?

the sensations are happening and it is happening, no stories or anything required for this.
The "I" is just an empty thought but gets stronger with the stories, desires, expectations etc
yes, otherwise it is an empty thought.
What is that makes I thought stronger? Take a close look here.

Sending love.
  
Lakshmi
Aug 19

Hi Ilona,
Yes, there is no container of thoughts definitely...
it’s just another thought or a label  given to the thoughts that flow probably..
no neither the "I" nor the senses seem to be existing as such except that the actions are happening and the labeling goes on which we express in words and names...
No there is no line, the senses are acting, the actions are happening and the rest is the labeling or the commentary....
Will write more,
Thanks,
Love ,

Ilona
Aug 19

Dear Lakshmi,

Good work.
Let’s explore language today.  Notice how language creates a doer that is doing the action. See how subject is part of labeling action.

I breathe- breathing is happening.
Is it I that does breathing?
Does it matter which words describe experience? Does description affect what is happening?

There is an exercise in this post. Do it and write to me what you noticed


Explore language while talking to people, listening, reading and so on.

Sending love.

Lakshmi
Aug 20

Hi Ilona,
Yes, i just did the exercise in the post you sent,
When i was doing the first part, I felt a sort of palpitations and pain here and there,
but when i did the second part there was a sort of emptiness and hollowness and vacuum in the body as if it was all empty inside...
What i felt at the end when i compare is that actions happening without me are happening anyways and truer than the actions with me because labels are not affecting the experience and only are used for describing.
"I" IS JUST USED FOR COMMUNICATION, DESCRIPTION.....it doesn't have any existence

Love,
Lakshmi

Ilona
Aug 20

Nice! Yes, description is practical and useful in communication. :) you are getting close

How about word I, is it empty or it points to a separate entity that life is happening to?
When word I is used in description of what is happening, does it mean, that the entity appears?

sending love.

Lakshmi 
Aug 26

Hi Ilona,
The word "i "is definitely empty except that it is used for communication or referred to that particular body mind complex.
It is empty because things happen even when it is used or not.

"I" is an other thought and with a big commentary around it constantly.
No entity does "I" refer to. nothing appears or disappears with "I"
Whatever is there is there irrespective of "I’. Whatever has to happen will be happening.

Love,
Lakshmi

Ilona
Aug 26

Yes!

How does it feel to see this? Are you noticing anything different in every day experience?
Can you say, that YES, it clear, there is no separate entity I. If not, is there anything else that needs to be looked at?

Sending Love.

Lakshmi
Aug 26

Yes ilona, things are different in everyday experience.
especially the answers seems to be flowing in the moment a question arises for day to day incidents..
and the same thing is proven again and again that it is all a game of the mind...
As of now i don’t feel there is a separate I ...but sometimes  at times of hurt the "I" seems real till looking happens again..
Thanks so much, how could you make it all so simple.....i know there is noone to make it happen, IT HAPPENS....
Please help till the gate is crossed.....
Much Love,

Ilona
Aug 27

Hi Lakshmi,

Keep looking, what is behind the hurt when it arises, see how it passes when it's noticed. Mind is checking this in every situation.

I is never real, sometimes it's a habitual assumption that it comes back, but as you notice, when looked, it's never found.  After a while this looking drops, but don't wait for it, it may take long time, or not. 

The hurt is a reaction to a touch of painful spot. You may look a at it and thank it for showing up, it's an opportunity to release it. instead of no you can say yes to intense feelings and just feel them openly, rather than resisting.  Each reaction is an invitation to look. And feelings pass quickly if there is no grasping. Surrendering is what is left when resistance to what is ends. And when feelings arise, give them space, feel them.

Are there separate entities in other people? How do you see your closest ones? How about strangers on the street?
  
Much love. 
  
Lakshmi
Aug 28

Amazing! superbly told!!
Will answer the questions soon..
Thanks, Regards, Love,

Lakshmi
Sep 4

Hi Ilona,
yes, the hurt just passes when i start looking though it is taking time to look during those times...
things changed ilona and its just superb, is it so simple?
There is no "I” yes,!!!
The reactions are passing easily, feeling light .
no, there cannot be any separate entities in other people, just the same body mind complex....differently conditioned, so reacting differently...otherwise the machines are the same...
yes, my closest ones and he strangers are the same like what i described but with the close ones there is this body attachment and love, other feelings..
but it feels easy to understand everyone, closest ones and strangers ...because it’s all happening and there is noone to do anything.

Thanks,
Love,

Ilona
Sep 6

Sweet! Yes, there is no one here doing anything. All is one movement of life.
Are you ready for the final questions?
If not, what else we can look at?

Sending love. 

Lakshmi
Sep 9

Hi Ilona, want to look into few more aspects before the final one!!!
will keep writing ..
Thanks for all this
Love,

Ilona
Sep 9
Share with me, what are you noticing..

Love
........................................




Lakshmi
Sep 19
Hi Ilona,
Been looking! Just few thoughts i would like to share ...
The questions about the horrible things that happen around us in this world disturbs..... Like the rapes, murders,... these things hurt and makes it difficult to understand that things happen and deeds done but no doer!!!
Well, as i write thoughts come that yes this is it... but the doubting mind interferes .
but ilona, i can’t stop saying that this is an amazing drama unfolding in front of our eyes.
and you made it so simple...
please tell me what is it i need to do for that final step

What is all this? feeling responsible, sacrifice etc etc used so much in Indian context...
man made ???
good and bad? help and hurt? they vary acc to people, situations etc
These things  are confusing when looked at...

and yes, all this is the mind chattering...
and the actions are a result of the conditioning ....
all actions result of those thoughts on which there is no control
then the reactions to all these actions.. it looks a cycle.

Lakshmi
Sep 21

Hi Ilona,
I am ready for the final questions...

Ilona
Sep 21

Sorry for delay with answer.
I'm very happy to hear that you are ready for the last questions. If something is not clear, answers will let me see what.

Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.

Lakshmi
Sep 24

Hi Ilona,
firstly,Thank you for all this.

1. No there is no self, i, me anywhere. Life is going on according to how it is supposed to be. There are different body mind organisms with its own conditioning, programming, memory, just doing what has to be done all around. Other than this there is no separate I, Me or Self....yes there was" I "before i started looking for it, The "I" that was there was what i thought was the life force which made my body move and mind think....That consciousness is still there but there is no "I" now. That consciousness is not separate it is universal and is THERE......That’s it....

2. The Illusion of separate self is that I AM SEPARATE ENTITY AND I EXIST  AND AM THE DOER ETC....ya and may be it starts from the time our mind starts thinking, working even as a child.... It makes me feel that i am separate individual, I am responsible for my actions, to plan, to think, to expect, see good and bad, label,...
Now, I see it as just a THOUGHT, THE MIND PROJECTION, that’s all... it only exists as a thought. Can’t find it otherwise, neither in me nor others. Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting of body and mind working according to the circumstances and conditioning.

3. It feels very light, beautiful because there is no burden of any doership in me no 'I' even in others so there is noone doing anything to anyone,. The answers come so easily to the questions which rise in day today life.. the perception changed ....and can’t believe that it is so simple.
There are no serious complaints, no burden, no serious goals, no feeling hurt like before, no holding responsible anyone for the deeds .... though its not always but many times. Because every answer flows in to balance the emotion.... i am sorry i hope you can understand what i mean.
  
4. cant really pinpoint the last bit, because every step kept pushing, looking and looking at every step possible helped me, looking especially when i am hurt helped me to realize and understand better ...i am sorry that i am unable to pinpoint the last bit,

5. oh no!!!! i definitely cannot control ...of course i even cannot decide, intend, choose too because they all happen according to the circumstances, conditioning, etc which is just not in my control..
some of my experiences in life when i look at the past ..... like i always wanted to become a doctor and practice but yes i did become but not practicing like what i thought,,, sitting at home and taking care of kids and the other family members because i lost my dad and brother at a crucial stage in my life and life is just flowing with No ME, NO DECIDING, NO CHOOSING, NO CONTROL, though the mind seems to be doing this by saying' I EXIST"....which i realize now that this also is another "THOUGHT"

Many Incidents in life in the past and the present again and again show that life just happens......
The one quote that just that keep ringing is EVENTS HAPPEN, DEEDS ARE DONE BUT THERE IS NO DOER and no doer for me is no 'I' no SELF...

This incident of meeting you, writing to you, looking at life ....All this also is HAPPENING.....

Thanks and much love,

Ilona
Sep 25
Beautiful, thank you for answers, Lakshmi.

I would like you to take a look little bit closer at this- was there ever an I? And what is the I that was looking for I?
I can see that a shift has happened, just need to look a bit more. Awakening is a process and it keeps going..

"Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting of body and mind working according to the circumstances" - yes, you can say that, but zoom out a bit, look at totality of movement, including this body, is there a line between this machine and another machine?
Is it body that is experiencing and reacting? Is there a line between reaction and circumstances?

When you look at what is looking, what is there?

Much love!

Lakshmi
Sep 25

Hi Ilona,
"I" is another thought looking for "I"
it’s all the mind that’s working...thought by thought
All thoughts are coming as questions and answers too.
There was never an "I"
There is a separation in terms of bodies but otherwise the rest is all the same... the functioning is the same, the thoughts which come is anyways beyond control of any machine and when there is no "I" for me then there is no any other "I"

The experiences and reactions are happening according to the thoughts that come from somewhere on which there is no control and its the thought of "I" that is reacting because of the identification with body.

Yes, the circumstances are already there, beyond control and the reaction comes because of the 'ego'.....the thought "I", the identification.

there is noone who is looking, looking is happening.....

Thank you so much,
Love,
Lakshmi 

hmm!!
  
Ilona
Sep 25
Thank you for answers.

There is something subtle that I invite you to look at:

You say: it’s the thought of "I" that is reacting because of the identification with  body.

Say word I, loudly or quietly a few times. Is this thought reacting?

Can a thought identify with body? What is that identifies with the body? What is behind identification? Can you look closer here, is there an ego? Or just more thoughts?

What do you notice?

Sending love.

Lakshmi
Sep 26

Hi Ilona, No, the thought I isn't reacting. There is no
identification, There is noone at all. only more and more thoughts
that's all. There is NOONE...oh my god!! Yes, NOONE indeed.. Love, Lakshmi

Ilona
Sep 26 

That is it and all is functioning just fine..

Welcome home. And you know, it's just a beginning, a fresh start to new way of living.
I'm delighted for you.

I usually put these conversations on the blog, would it be ok with you? I can use your name or any other name you prefer. If other guides have questions that may ask, if not I will invite you to join LU Facebook groups.

Sending love!

Lakshmi
Sep 27

to me
Thank you Ilona,
The journey has been beautiful....
You could do whatever you feel like with the conversations and my name....

Much Love,

Ilona
Sep 28

Hi Lakshmi,

Thank you so much. It will take me a few days to publish this. Will let you know when I do that.
Have a wonderful day!

Much love.

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