Being Alive Is The Biggest Miracle Of All

This was one of most remarkable conversations i ever had. It was beyond wonderful. A seeker of 40 years, at 83, finally is free from seeking. What a gift to be of service in such a journey. My deep bow to Harriet.

Harriet:
Dear Ilona,

Our last conversation was via FB as hearing the London Meeting audio tapes had started an unprecedented flow of happenings that seemed be an acceleration and continuation of a process of deconstruction and falling into not knowing which started following the "death of the seeker" some 3 years back.

It was clearly a miracle to stumble onto L.U. and find that there were others who awakened out of the dream of "states" and  who could actually articulate what I never spoke to anybody about.

On your blog Marked Eternal I started the steps and you helped me thru a huge fear state that came up with   the gut realization I did not have a mind.  Our FB dialogue helped me look behind and see what the fear was protecting.  Since then so much acceleration is going on.  Most notably I know what is meant by the phrase you used in the Batgap interview...."things just fall into place on their own"  This seems like a definite assurance the Flow dipped a Toe into the Flow and I Know its So.  Heh Heh

I assume you did not get my request I posted on The Forum to proceed with your help and since this "happening" seems to be rapidly unfolding   on its own, please do not feel obligated with your duties of helping to birth this movement of L.U.  as it takes form in this historical moment ...the leap of evolution whereby humanity is poised to alter course into the unbelievable and unimaginable dawning of freedom from the  paralyzing grip of the belief constructs  of a non-existent self.

Oh shoot that sounds like a lot of BS words  but I wanted to verbalize my amazing joy even if crudely and way   too word, but   It just  seems so astonishing  to see the dawning of this in my lifetime.

Sorry for so many words, to try and articulate what I cannot really say but that's the flow too that has no prob with it. and believe me I don't either since it happened on its own Halleluia

In Joy and Gratitude

................
Dear Ilona,

Something is gaining momentum here such that I am busy writing down all the amazing ways I am experiencing my existence in ways I just COULD NOT HAVE made happen.  Its only in retrospect that I see the miracle that boggles my mine because I KNOW I could not have made it happen.  Example:  I was dog sitting a brand new client's home/dog.  An intruder was already inside.  I reacted with fear and anger and reaction.  I noticed  the eyes of that person.  At that moment everything changed in my behavior and I won't describe the details that unfolded because it was so ordinary BUT we ended up embracing (after I shared my apology for "trashing them so badly".  When the stranger asked me to not tell the owner of the house, about it,  It was perfect I didn't need to.  No one was harmed and the dog that got away I was responsible for (when he intruded) a stranger appeared with the dog on the leash .... he was looking for the owner and found us.

There are so many effortless happenings that I only register AFTER, but sometimes during this new way of being, I notice I am not behaving in the old ways and the outcomes are amazing.  Even thoughts come like a download that are not my thoughts and I seem to "catch" the difference between knowings and thoughts that used to think they knew ......   I the thought I need to tell somebody about this miracle happening to me IS JUST A THOUGHT and my old desire to go talk about it is gone.  My mind doesn't even go to try and figure anything out.  I KNOWS it can't and I'm THRILLED to see when it tries and I can feel, experience directly no matter what is painful, scary, joyful, etc.

I really am going to trust that what has been activated here will unfold and I have the Forum, The Book, and all the people who are post-gate who share on L.U. to share with.

I an sooooo excited for this historical breakthrough of L.U. via two jargon-less lovely ladies instead of the hyper-masculine organizing it as did happen in the past.

All my rejoicing its happening for humanity so sweetly and unobtrusively and spreading in its own intelligence with post-gaters

What can I say but thank you .  Trust is arising in me that knows I will know in the moment (without thought) because its happening that way and beats just accepting "What Is"  which has been a way of life for me for a long time.

Long live L.U.   heh-heh

Love

Ilona:
hi Harriet, i left a message for you on the forum. ( you can read that part there).

this email of yours has blown me away.... life is the best and only true teacher. the synchronicities, the mysterious events are working so well to show what else needs to be seen. you are really going trough some amazing time.

can you say, that shift has happened or is it still going on? what do you notice now?
how is the body feeling?

yes, knowing that everything is unfolding as it should brings a whole new flavor to life. looks like you getting a great taste of  it!

sending lots of love to you.

Harritet:

Hi Ilona,

I forgot to address the questions you asked in this e-mail.
Without beating around the bush, I crossed some kind of threshold,  like literally feeling as if an invisible force plugged me into a totally different reality.

That is not an exaggeration.  Is it ongoing.  Yup, can't stop it, can't stop the wonderment and the dimension of how every facet of my life Example:  Life just like before but after a happening my jaw drops as I notice miracle after miracle.  I can't believe its like Life works without my thinking about it and it works so differently I simply can't keep up my journal where after the fact (end of the day) I write down these different levels of changes in how I look out at the sky, get stuck in traffic and am in awe I look about and see so much in the moment that in the past I would have been bored or impatient or thinking about being late..... none of that stuff happens and yet, it is as natural as breathing.  Everything amazing to look at, hear, even car honks.  Always amazing at something so simple that can explode joy for no reason.

Listen, I feel I could tell all these things to anybody have some astounding things happening on many levels.  There is no cause to try and explain this to anyone, not even Adyashanti my old teacher.  But I LOVE expressing my wonderment to you as you won't mix it up with just another awakening shift. I've at least two big ones during my 40 years and many lesser ones.  BUT L.U. is NOT in the same ball park.

How is my body responding. ?  I do Zumba and the steps come easier in being taught, the movements are more energetic without tiring as much.  Its very noticeable and delightful at 83 to see this rejuvenation.  I was hardly what you call "normal" for my age to start with but this is ridiculous. I don't need much sleep and wake rested and in the past, groggy and get up slowly.  Ha Ha Now when I awake, I lay there and recognize how I have an entirely new life and can't understand it and something (Not me) moves the body to get up.  I may eat or not..  I don't eat just because its breakfast time Ha Ha

Well, I'll ty to figure out how to communicate with you via the Forum and it would help if you could let me know if you received my first set of questions and my replies.

I am so moved that you will stay with me as you mentioned in that e-mail.  Something unbelievable is happening here and not all roses.  Today, I man was angry because he thought my car was the one that left a mark on a new paint job.  He was nasty and it wasn't me.  No defense arose in me and I was not afraid of his loud voice and red face and accusation that was not true.  Guess what ?  We ended up leaving the parking lot with his saying to me politely, "You could be more careful"  Ha Ha it wasn't even me and I told  him I would.  This is just NOT my old personality.  Its so fun like being in an adventure without knowing what is up next.

A feeling of guilt arises for daring to write so much to someone with so many others to respond to ......that word g-u-i-l-t  is really a sensation in my body like it contracts and my feeling is uneasy.....so nice to see it rise, not get caught and see it disappear all one movement effortless.  I frickin' know I didn't think or feel it.  Yikes.

My Love,
Harriet  (idolanuel)


.................................
Harriet:
Dear Kind Friend

Please forgive me, I feel compelled to tell this to someone and I'm not so sure of myself in how to post and receive posts (deleted my replies two times now.  i don't want to delete this unknowingly.)

I am dissolved in tears of overwhelmed intensity with the impact of this simple statement (reading your book just now)  I don't know why I can't stop crying but i seems it wells up unbidden and more tears come realizing it not only does so without a "self" BUT the overwhelming impact of these words....(Bruno: pg 35)    "Life is just observing Itself"  I felt the tsunami of emotion so unbelievably rising.... I can't hardly see these words I am typing thru uncontrolled surges of tears with the knowing as this experience unfolds its NEVER been me ..... Just dear, sweet, beloved, gentle, unharming, peaceful love  observing its creation with outstretched eternal arms with no past present or future.  How thunderous but unharmful is the impact of Life experiencing Life thru this experience that I can call me and not struggle with the label at all.

These tears that won't stop are not mine its Life experiencing Itself so intimately as me.  I don't mind the label "me" anymore because I am so clear in this moment at the immense and unfathomable beauty of what I called "my life" has dissolved into the thundering, gentle joy of struck with the truth that Life (my life) is and always has been "The Beloved observing Itself thru what I used to think was  "my existence"  

Ah the tsunami of realization and emotion subsiding and morphing always into a new and fresh "Life observing Itself"  How magical and easeful the body/mind/psyche comes to rest in no thought particularly.  So will close.

Now I "get" why L.U. came into being  Life wanted to wake Itself up to its own Mystery thru us.  Sorry for the word "us"  We need a new language.  Ha Ha.

I think I am ready for final questions because what ever rises and passes in that dance between us will be Life observing and loving Itself ,,,, so what to hesitate about.

Sorry about my techno confusion using the Forum..... (I'm in a learning curve and still trying to figure out how to send and receive our posts.  P.S I am getting the hang of falling away and watching Life work in a magical way without such heavy baggage  of a "me" phantom  :-)

Ilona:
Yeaaahhh, all is one movement expressed as different roles. It is life that is waking up, can say that and at the same time there is knowing that these words can never express it truly.

There is weirdness of how to use the language once this is seen, but, this is the only language we have and it's no point to get weird with it. We can use I and us and know that there is nothing behind them, you will get used to it, hehe.

Here are the questions for you dear,

Please answer in full when ready.

Harriet:
Dear Ilona,

I would like to say that 3 family crises  have erupted on the scene  since I received your final questions and require some  attention, so I will send my answer to the first question and take you up on your words to take my time to reply for the remaining final questions …..(to be continued).

Question 1.
Is there a 'me' at all in any way, shape or form. ?  No way, never was. 

That being said, I also could not find a "me" during the Adya non-duality years, but that didn't mean I was free of it.  Even when the search ended, it was taking credit for the surprise and relief that the search ended all by itself.  The  me" had nothing to do with it.  Not until LU was it discovered I didn't exist.
So   No, there is no me at all,  anywhere, in any way, shape or form.  No there never was ever, nor is there anything that could possibly be separate from anything else.

I might add that its obvious that a line has been irrevocably passed in my life  as I experience the chaos and drama of  family issues I used to retreat from. Now   without effort  I seem to know what to say, what to do, what NOT to say and NOT to do …where to keep quiet and when to act.   This is  all  happening without me trying without   self-doubt,  or  worry for their suffering.   Surprisingly a lot of compassion instead.  The reflection i get back is people are helped and grateful.   That is such a blessing. Not fun to see their suffering, but grateful I don't add to it as in the past.

Is it okay to use your blog e-mail  until I can  learn how the Forum format functions for this dialogue better ?.  Are there written instructions for computer challenged people like me ?

P.S.  I don't feel like an "outsider" in the world anymore like I have been welcomed to Reality 101 heh-heh   …

Throat tension, chest opening, tears falling in gratitude and landing at your feet.

Love,
Harriet

Ilona:
Sending you a BIG hug.

And tears come to my eyes too. So delightful to read that you saw it. So sweet to hear that... And yeah, being in family crisis situation really reveals that something IS different. Loving your family now can be free of judgments about what is going on and it gives them chance to relax around you. So sweet.

Will wait for your other answers. And once I get them all I will put them on my blog, so don't worry about the forum.  All good.

Love you Harriet.
Have a great day. And, welcome to the flow.  :))


Harriet:
Ah, how sweet it is to celebrate my passing over with you.  Thank you for the hug and welcome home to where I never left (grin).

I wrote about 40 minutes of words that when I re-read them were boring and I find myself less interested in trying to express my ongoing experience of the awe and wonder of this new life post-gate in words.  So I'll just get to it and try and answer question #2 instead.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

It appears that for the newborn baby studies show that it seems to have no knowledge that its being is separate from the mother, the breast.  That seems to change as the brain evolves into the next phase of evolution where the boundary between mother, breast, child is morphing into a new mode.  Baby becomes aware that what we all crying will bring the breast and ease the discomfort of hunger and I imagine more subtle morphing happens connecting a mother's angry face or rough handling of its body etc.  so maybe that is just the preliminary stages before the big Kahuna of language sets in motion a spin that demands the attention of the baby that in order to survive the increasing chaos of its changing world, survival demands that it pay attention to the vocalizations that seem directed at it in particular.

 To add to that, we  know that most mammals do not have such a prolonged period of total dependency on the parent for survival of the body, compared to the human and that helpless state for the human infant for such a long period, may contribute a factor, because there is so much going on in the brain development of our species, it needs that increased dependency period. That could add a factor of insecurity ?

That put aside, I think what little understanding I have, it would seem that the big factor is language when the brain starts to hear vocalizations that come from the caregiver (the source of survival) that the brain miraculously informs the infant of a more sophisticated threat to survival and the need to pay attention to the vocalizations (words) and language is learned.  Soon, its clear when the mom smiles and vocalizes Billy and taps him on the chest, it won't be long until Billy gets it:   " Oh, that has something to do with me"  Reinforce that over and over and it soon comes to the  conclusion "I am Billy"  The word becomes his identification away from the primordial fact of his being.

That is a major learning rupture and soon to follow will be the vocalizations from the throat of Billy's survival hope, to learn  Mama and Daddy words that point to that outside his own perspective of being Billy.  The rest is more of the same, compounded by ideas (memory) beliefs, imaginations, thoughts looped into emotions (felt in the body and threatening survival),  according to individual programming/ brain wash..... which now butts up against other separated programming and the truth and beauty and magnificence of our being gets veiled.  Even those who in the past saw the truth behind the distortion, were hard put to get others to see what they could only put in words. It would be inevitable that the duality of language was a poor tool to convey to already programmed minds the inconceivable and unimaginable glory of what the Buddha tried to say ...... Emptiness is form and form is Emptiness.

Well, that's what came out.

I am so happy to be post-gate in dealing with family crises and the head clearing enough to see I make a difference compared to pre-gate  (but it ain't me    ha ha)  Will get to question #3  but I love my time alone at the beach or redwood forests to leave language behind and feel my creature nature, so welcomed by life and welcoming in return.  Thoughts recede so far back at these times in nature and when I realize, "Oh, Bruno was right..... Life is observing itself  in this moment as me, for me thru me, no separation....no big deal.  Its that way for everyone whether they know it or not, Life doesn't mind, just keeps on giving more life.

Much love and joy in being alive   ....also the gratitude energy rises in direction to you for understanding these squiggly words from where they came from.  Lovely to share that gift with you.
..............................
Hello Ilona

I'll try to make this brief as I see that you have been inundated for requests for your time from people viewing the Batgap interview.  So happy there is a cadre of post-gaters on LU to assist you and Elena.

3) How does it feel to see this ?  Describe in detail.  

Any sense that there was a mistake in all the suffering I endured in an abusive childhood, all the lost potential, all the trauma, fear, failed suicide, and struggle to know the truth about WHY has magically come to rest in a profound awe  that  somehow radically alters how life is living "this thing called Harriet"  now.  Harriet can be here but unleashed from an identity I was unconsciously glued to.  I no longer seem glued somehow to beliefs or ideas, or thoughts or feelings.... and I'm NOT trying to deconstruct those concepts anymore, they are clearly not mine and can arise but so what ?  Its sort of a miracle to see I can still be Harriet AND be the unknown and un-named force behind Harriet.  I just love in your book where Bruno realizes "Life observing itself"  That is sort of what it feels like to me and the thrill, the actual experience of looking into someone's eyes and see it looking back with no middle man called "I" cannot be described ...... so ordinary (Harriet)  and so unbelievably sublime ?  same/same.  What a conundrum to the thing we call mind and how obvious in reality  as I live in the moment post gate.

I could give detail after detail  that in this critical and chaotic time for family from which I feel no resistance to retreat from (as pre-gate)  I am carried like on the wings of life that responds in ways that I can see I am not doing (as Harriet used to)  and yet not separate in any way from what I call "Harriet" or  "my sister"  or. her fighting daughters, her psychiatrist, her doctor etc.  The metaphor of the wave makes perfect sense here

There is a magnificent, superb and sublime intelligence governing this thing we call Life and we don't have to figure it out to live it.  It lives itself and seems this earthly dimension is a place where we  can wake up out of the painful unconscious tread milling of our life into a radically transformed perspective that somehow causes the world to reflect back to us a whole new reality that could be named Flow doing itself consciously, unlike pre-gate where change/flow happens but OMG pretty unconscious. (smiles)

Well dear Ilona, that wasn't very brief, but its such a privilege to tell this to YOU.  I want to add that my life isn't without a stumble into a thought that grabs me and a chill of sensation hit the chest or gut  BUT  the realization "I" did not cause this  rises if  the body sensations alert me to a sense of confusion. What a beautiful release and relaxation and trust comes from the experience. In fact, sort of gratitude to be put to the test and find I don't exist   Yahoo

My love as always

Ilona:
beautiful. thank you for sharing this. lots of appreciation here for you too.
looking forward to the rest of answers.

much love

Harriet:
Hello again and greetings from No Who Here  (just kidding) but I re-listened to the London meeting and realized why I was a complete drop out with the Ramana inquiry  Who Am I ? question.  I tried and tried and all it would do was cause more trying and more thinking "Who am I" ?  So when you told Ian  its a faulty question because there is no "who",  I cracked up  big time..... Who would dare to  question the validity of Ramana's famous  question ?   It just seemed obvious after you bluntly told Ian its a faulty question because  "there is no who"  I love to laugh and I was all alone and couldn't help giggle that I didn't "get it" the first time I heard you say it.

Okay, enough blah blah

Question #4.   
How would you describe it to someone who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?

My first thought was "I wouldn't"   Then I felt that was rather flippant and seriously  tried to think ways to make it as simple as I could and not use spiritual jargon.  I tried again yesterday and too many words.  So I want to be honest, I could describe it in many way with words and its lifeless and trying harder is NOT an option for me, soooooo to be honest Ilona, I would wait until they asked me again and again and when I saw they really  wanted to know, I would share with them my experience of going to the LU website, meeting a guide, reading the book and it became clear its not communicable in words (history seems to bear this out) BUT it appears something new has come to this planet in opening a simple, direct and easy way to see thru the illusion of a separate self,  not by telling people about it, but giving them the guidance to walk thru an experiential finding it out for themselves.

The only description that I sort of liked maybe  because everyone loves music:   Is when we listen to a song if there were only the lyrics and words, we might argue differences of opinion forever, but miss the song itself which is carried on the wings (so to speak) of  the  symphony of sounds, moods, rhythm, cadence, color, wonder.  One day the switch is found to the source of sound  and the miracle of music (song)  is obvious without arguing about the lyrics.

I'm having fun seeing how I make up stories after the fact of a "happening" and delight that I don't have to dismantle the story, it can be there but the joke and light feeling is it just another "happening" and I don't believe it like its true and need to have others to go along with the creation of memory, thoughts or whatever comprises the content of so called story.  In a way its an incomprehensible and inconceivable miracle how the brain does such a thing.  I understand completely how you say after awhile since we don't take our story seriously, we can play in the drama, have a good laugh, (or cry) and listen to other people's stories and no problem.

It's a huge embrace of everything rising and passing and not burdened by the phantom sense of "I" making a problem.   Like    nobody at the wheel  but the astounding awe and wonder, its happening anyway.  How could anybody imagined this possible pre gate ?  That's why I'm  not compelled to talk about this to anyone but you, but it could change too.

Many weird nuanced whisperings that what I felt was my individuality (like a strand) has merged into a bigger  fiber   called flow which is just the beginning of a whole new dimension since post gate.   Don't like to speculate but I don't see and end to this flow.

Love to you this moment


Ilona:
nice. and yeah, who would question if question "who am i" is faulty or not. hahaha, i did...
same like the Descartes' i think therefore i am...
ok, please send me your last answer.
after that you can meet the others. :)

sending love.


Harriet:
Just wanted to reach out.  I was reading your book and wasn't expecting such overwhelming grief to hit simply from a deeper recognition of I am not here. Literally.  It feels like when my beloved dog was brought back from the vet, dead.   The loss was too much to bear for a child. This intense bodily experience of grief happening now is unbidden on realizing more deeply I am not  coming back  EVER.  I never was here.  When we first worked together and it "hit" me, the feelings I associate with fear and terror rose, but I was with you and it knew it was just happening and there was some relief in that knowing, but this loss, is intense Ilona,  I feel like I am dying while still be alive and I don't want to, and the grief is that I can't go back, I have seen too much.  Even now part of the grief is I am powerless to the next second to influence it.

Everything....everything....everything in me and all around me in the world is just appearing and passing away on its own.  But what tears me apart is that I think I loved the person I was like I loved my dog and could not bring him back.  That is so sad.  I know this is the miracle of feeling rising on its own and there is some solace that it will pass and something else will rise and pass away on its own in my unknown being which seems some comfort to trust the miraculous even if it brings such intense bodily energetic waves of what feels like I'm not here like I used to be.   I am glad I reached out to you.  It is so unlike the Harriet that used to be who would retreat into the depths of my own self for safety in my aloneness.  I am glad I reached even though it still comes in waves, I trust whatever this wild madness of loss is.  I am aware I am not dying physically....something more like the loss of my only friend that was with me thru all my past. Gone, gone, gone.

Thanks, Ilona   I remember you saying I could write you if I needed to.  I am sure I didn't need to but like all..... it just happened and so this intensity I could not have predicted by reading a few words in Tom/Ilona dialogue set this off and it feels like its winding down like after a storm.

Now comes the old habit to try and figure it out, but nothing rises, so I'll have a cup of tea and listen to the night sounds (I live close to the ocean)

Love,
Harriet

Ilona:
Yes, I know the feeling.. I had that too, but it's only a sign that release is happening on the deeper levels. It will pass. This phrase is always a great support when something like this surfaces-  this too shall pass.

This is part of cleansing that comes with disillusionment.

Sending love. And a hug.


Harriet:
Ah, thanks for the info.  I figured because it was so intense and provoked by something you said to Tom in your book, that is was all good, but whhhh  it was fierce.  Thank you

I finished the last and final question and I think you mentioned after that you would enable me to meet other post-gaters ?

This is quite amazing what LU is doing, I would like to send a donation.  Is that possible ?
How ?

Much love and lightness


Ilona:
oh, ok, i got it, the last long email was the answer to the last question. thank you!

yes, there is aftercare, and to get you in there i will need to post a blogpost with our conversation, get other guides to look through and see if they have any questions, then if no, i will invite you to the groups. we are friends on fb already.

can i have your permission to post our conversation on my blog, it has been quite a journey and it is a delightful read. i am so honored to have been a guide for you.

as for donation, that is soo kind of you. much appreciation for you for even offering that. hmm, we haven't set up an official organization yet, we do not have a structure, nor donate button. this keeps coming up, and some time later we will have to do it. it does take lots of paperwork and time to register non profit organization. we are so busy working with people that haven't taken time to do it yet. i guess this is what makes LU different.

there are other ways to contribute to LU by writing testimonial, review for the book, by being part of creative projects. but if you really wish so, you can send a donation to my Paypal account, on ilona315@googlemail.com, that would be used for paying hosting fees and other fees that come up within our projects. it would be warmly received with love.

thank you harriet. the journey continues.

much love.

Harriet:
Lovely one, I am all choked up for reading your response of today.

Yes, Yes, Yes, the journey has begun and its unmistakable with synchronicity, ease inside, beauty outside, intense grief bathed in a sense Life does that too with no need to be different, future seems impossible (only occasional thought that passes like a cloud), anger with the Neo-Advaita "carrot" of enlightenment folks (heh heh) that rises and falls too.  Its like riding an oceanic wave and feeling safe when it "white water's" my experience.  But nature's beauty in silence speaks the loudest to me AND the furry lab next door whose love meets my joy like no other human can.

I so celebrate  your being bringing LU to the world on a radically different and fruitful format, person to person, outside the money changers into the hearts of ordinary people who have the ears to hear without all the historical baggage clouding something so simple.

Yes, I will go to fb and thanks for making me  a friend.  The concept of "aftercare" is genius and I feel like I've found my tribe :-))  

Yes, of course, feel free to do what you will with our conversation.  It would be lovely  to even think  one person would benefit..... that would be make me happy.

Being alive is the biggest miracle of all..... it constantly blows me away I got to taste this before I actually leave the body behind.  Thanks for the Paypal idea, that makes me  happy too.

Your friend,
Harriet

Ilona:
Dear Harriet,

I was humbled to see that you have donated such generous amount of money, thank you so much! It really touched my heart. You are the first one, that has ever done so and you are now part of LU history! On 17th of September is our one year anniversary, since the forum and website has been launched. It has been an amazing year, LU has grown so much and is reaching out to more and more people.

I'm sharing the money you sent with Tina- she is our web designer and she is so speedy with everything. around sixty, lovely lady that lives in Texas.  When my both computers burned out, she kindly sent me her old laptop. :) she is paying fees for www.gatelessgatecrasher.com created it herself without being asked.

And also Derek, he recently organized and completed the project of LU app, enlightening quotes, he also had to pay for the registering it. now we are working to make these quotes into audio files, that people will be able to listen.

Thank you with all my heart.
And just to let you know, you can write to me any time.  I'm here.

Love you, Harriet.

Reality is Life Meeting Life and Celebrating Itself

Roger:
Hi Ilona,
I think I saw the truth last night that there is no self. I'd done your list of questions...and kept wondering why I couldn't get it because nothing definite was happening? Then I was reading your session with Australian architect and statement came up....that, 'I's' can't see! and that did it, it was like wham!!!! of course, its so stupidly simple. I's can't see, and only I's have paths, and Gates and Enlightenment...for there even to be a gate there has to be an 'I' wanting to pass through.

This was followed by 10 mins or so laughing at absurdity of it all, and rest of evening feeling liberated and filled with relief. Today not much noticeable difference but a sense of being supported some vague way, and a lack of need to ask questions about difficult romantic situation I'm in with woman friend, a kind of knowing there is no need, that whatever will happen will be exactly right, and there was a noticeable lightening up when she visited!

I do want to nurture this if this is in fact the transition, and wasn't sure where to go next?
You mentioned there is another step on Libration Nation but I can't find LN? Or, do I go to the Gate Forum?

I'm 67 and have been seeking for 28 years. I have felt for a while I was right on the verge...very strong sense there was not self, etc. but had pretty much given up any active seeking. Then I saw you on Buddha at Gas Pump, a program I can barely stand to watch do to the questioner, but do on occasion purely for something to pass evening.

Want to thank you both for the most amazingly simple exposition of this subject I've ever come across.
Yours, Roger

Ilona:
Dear Roger,

Thank you so much for the message and such great news! I'm
Delighted to hear that seeing happened and it was seen, that I does not see!
Great.

Yes, there is a next step, I call it falling. But first lets check if you are through the gateless gate with both legs.

Do you exist?
What is the I?
Is there a self in any form or shape in reality, was there ever?

Please write in full, answer when ready, take your time with this.

Lots of love.
:))

Roger:
Hi Ilona, 
Thanks for such a quick response, its great you do this follow up. Anyway here goes...I do want to know if I have one foot in and one foot out.

"Do you exist?" 
I have to say no because this would take me back into identification with things.

I: That does not sound very confident :)

R: My experience at moment is like there's an energy that has unique experience of itself....but I can't find discernable sense of a 'you' or 'me' in it. In fact I'm not sure where it begins and ends?

I: Can it be that there is no beginning no end, all it is is this one energy?


R: Yes, it could, its new for me to be experiencing this, and of course energy is probably like water and there's no distinguishing one bit from rest, and if all is energy then there's no boundaries, no beginnings or ends. Yet, there's sense of uniqueness experienced, where does that come from?  
I don't see in any objects anything that reflects an identity of myself, I only see a passing of things...sometimes I do have experience of being reflected in some vague way, in another's eyes, and sometimes holding or embracing another the other can feel indistinguishable from myself. However, on another note, I am in a troubled relationship of 18 months, yesterday I proposed something and it was turned down, there was immediate experience of disappointment, so who was experiencing the disappointment was what came to mind? 


R: I don't see in any objects anything that reflects an identity of myself, I only see a passing of things...sometimes I do have experience of being reflected in some vague way, in another's eyes, and sometimes holding or embracing another the other can feel indistinguishable from myself. However, on another note, I am in a troubled relationship of 18 months, yesterday I proposed something and it was turned down, there was immediate experience of disappointment, so who was experiencing the disappointment was what came to mind? 

I: The feelings, are they personal? Are they appearing to a me, or are they raw sensations experienced?
Is there a feeler?


R: No, a me doesn't seem present in (my) experience recently. I didn't feel sense of personal, there was just sense of disappointment, raw sensation. About hour later thought came to remove myself from relationship. You querying me here has just lead to another realization, actually its quite a lump of awareness that's just hit me...thank you. It's this...My? experience has been of quite remarkable clarity recently, this appeared to (me? I'm using '?' words for convenience here) as a blue sky with sun shining. This relationship appeared like a dark cloud in the blue sky. Thought's were, I don't want to go into that cloud, I need to withdraw from relationship. 

Realization just came its in nature of sky to have clouds in it, some dark and some white and puffy...and there's nothing 'I' can do about it, as 'I's' can't DO anything! Because 'I' is just a thought, and can't effect anything. So there's just awareness of sky with clouds passing taking place...and all that's arising is always only, what is. (Hope that last makes sense?)


R: "What is the I?" 
The I is a false construct of thoughts claiming to be cause for what's happening in life and originator of actions.

I: I is a thought. A single unit. Not a construct. It's one thought that appears before other thought and is a label.

R: For quite a time now there's been little or no sense of an experience of this. I'm an artist and have always felt it was not me painting the pictures, but that some energy came in and did it effortlessly if I only let it. I've sensed this in rest of my life....something was doing all of it, and I could trust it to bring me the best conclusions, beyond anything I might anticipate.

I: Yes! All is like that. There is no one doing living.

R: This happened a year ago when I was 'effortlessly' moved from living in US to Mexico. I'd tried for years to effect similar move myself from where I lived but kept being returned back to where I was trying to move from, defeated! 

I: I know exactly what you are saying here.  Things do not happen until they do. And when it happens there is sense of effortlessness.

R: "Is there a self in any form or shape in reality, was there ever?"
No, and there never was. I've had many mini awakenings over the years but they've all reverted back to previous state, which I've put down to my expectations at time, that there was going to be some decisive transformation in the 'self'? However, my sense of self was quite diminished by these experiences. 

I'm concerned this is another, and will revert back, but this is not so much an 'experience'. I did see clearly this time that all the attributes of the false 'self' were inevitably attached to it, the endless unanswerable questions, the sense of neediness, the void inside, the search for purpose, and so on. There couldn't be one without the other!

What seems different this time is the feeling there's nothing to be gained by this, it's so subtle, though the other evening when penny dropped it was as if whole world shifted. All I can sense is an increased lightness of being and increased feeling of assurance all can only be well however its appearing. I catch myself wondering did something really happen? But words come more effortlessly at meetings, I don't have to think about what to say, and there's little sense of the one saying them, so something has happened.

I want to mention, the other evening after I'd done your questions, I'd also lightly done the head heart dialogue, asking what was stopping me from getting this, I didn't seem to get direct answer...but assured the mind it could relax and let it happen and.... look what happened!!!! I also did the... imagining I came upon myself dead exercise...and saw with great clarity the body was only an object among other objects. Still not quite sure how to account for the energy felt within the body....there's a sense of beingness to it.

I: This is very clear.

Tell me, is there a difference between I, me, self and roger.
What do you notice here?


R: No, there isn't any difference, they all seem like thoughts floating in some space in mind with nowhere to go. 

I have tried to be as honest as possible as it would be good to have sense of where I'm at in this whole affair. Though either way I'm OK with it.

Best for now, R

I: Thank you very much for your sincerity.

Much love to you
.................

Roger:
I is a thought. A single unit. Not a construct. It's one thought that appears before other thought and is a label. 

R: I misunderstood you here, "What is the I?" I took to be...what is the identity of the "I." In singular, its clear that I is just a thought and not a construct, i.e. the stories stitched up around it giving sense of 'I"dentity? 

I did have experience a few years ago which I will recount in vernacular, which is perhaps only way i could experience it at the time. I was daydreaming on porch looking at mountains, this flashed across awareness,  over to left of me an apparent Inner Being, Real Self, gigantic, invisible to me, from this was 'purloined' and that word came attached, think it means taken without permission, a tiny portion which was over to right of me, around this was stitched stories, they appeared quite random and having no real connection to each other, just unrelated events or happenings, which needed this bit of being to activate them.. This was the personal self. I saw inevitably only a void could be experienced at its centre... because it had been detached from source of being, which was waiting patiently for it to be returned. After this I knew there was no personal self, that it was false  entity in mind, patched together, with a name pulled out of a hat attached.  (I didn't put this in my last response as I thought it a digression from what was being dealt with.) 

What do you notice here? 
R: What I noticed was the words I, me, and self, felt closer, nearer, in someway, than roger, which felt more abstract, but they all seemed to have nowhere to attach.

(Note; I have in past occasionally referred to myself in third person, e.g. with slight humor, "Roger seems to like smoking." What I liked about this was it created distinction between words being said and apparent person saying them. It intrigued me as it created a slight echo that felt more truthful.) Hope this helps clarify...two feet in, one in one out, or, no feet anywhere!!!
Love you too for doing all this, R

Ilona:
"Yes, it could, its new for me to be experiencing this, and of course energy is probably like water and there's no distinguishing one bit from rest, and if all is energy then there's no boundaries, no beginnings or ends. Yet, there's sense of uniqueness experienced, where does that come from? " 

what happens if you replace word energy with simple word LIFE?
look around, everything is unique. every leaf on a tree is unique. such is life- all has a flavor of uniqueness, there is nothing special about that.

the rest, nice nice nice. yes, that makes a lot of sense. this is exactly it.
there is an exercise on this post. do it. this may help to see clearer, how it all works.
write to me what you noticed.
much love.

ps. btw, love is the best teacher of all. it burns through conditioning like it's made of petrol.
good luck with your lady friend.

Roger:
Hi Ilona, 
First I have to say I was complexity stunned by your comment on uniqueness of energy, that everything in world was unique....that I hadn't made such an obvious association that was staring me in face, leaves on trees, flowers, grains of sand even!!! So thanks for that, also thanks for suggestion of changing word 'energy' to 'life' makes much more sense...and becomes a complete explanation.

I did read and do exercise recommended in link you sent. The explanation you give of how 'me' comes into being  and the effect it has, was very simple and clear. The exercise was interesting...I felt much more tense using 'I' word for 10min, then slow relaxation doing same without 'I' word....then relaxation sweeping over me towards end. 

The funny thing is the second part of exercise, now I glance at it, gives a much more interesting picture,  describes a world of events and subjects just happening all by themselves, even thoughts and names crossing mind, which I included in description...as they were occurring in the time being written down.

Your comment, love...burns through conditioning. I just spoke with woman friend who called me, and treated call as phenomenon in the now, and there were no problems...we were two beings talking to each other, that's all, and it was lovely, the love between us was present, in the event!!!!  It was just an event.

I feel really grateful to you for all this. I don't know where I am in it anymore...nor do I care particularly. I had lunch with a friend who was at a 12 Step meeting we go to, Alanon, and he said when I spoke there was like a light coming out of eyes? There's days when this energy, 'life', seems to be pouring through me, then there's days when its muted, though I can feel it in background. Plus I'm speaking with incredible increase in confidence, ease, and feeling great clarity of being and mind.

I did have experience about 7yrs ago of radical shift in consciousness, which lasted 3 months. It was much more like what you describe on Labels page, I could look at any though in my mind and watch it unravel like a ball of wool, I saw the roots that made it up and that it was totally false. I experienced a lot of semantic shifting too, there was no such thing as 'here' or 'there', and everything was purely positive, nothing appeared that contained negative in anyway. Insights popped into mind all the time, like, happiness was state of being, hope was to wish for noting at all...etc. I tried to write some of it down but couldn't make it make any sense on page, or in words. You have written your realization down with amazing clarity.

So, I've no idea where I'm at? 

Much love to you R

Ilona:
you have no idea where you are? do you exist?

:)

Roger:
YES!  (Point taken)

Ilona:
Hm so what would the answer be to my  question, do you exist?

Roger:
Can I say Hm too?! No 'you', 'me', 'I', exists, they're just thoughts, they can neither see, feel, or do, anything,....experience is happening, the experiencer is indistinguishable from that being experienced, its all 'life', impersonal but at the same time incredibly unique. The body is an object among other objects experienced. Stories come and go....there will always be stories, (I like that!) they are like clouds floating across the  sky.

I see, in the statement I made "I don't know where I'm at?" (which was more a figure of speech, or laziness on my part)  there's no 'I', no 'where,' and no 'at'!  So, there's no 'problem'!!!! There's no 'knowing' either as that implies a 'knower'!!!! There's just 'what is' and that's all there is. 
My emphatic YES! in last email was to, there's an energy happening, which we've agreed to call 'Life', which is simultaneously experiencing itself. I liked very much your analogy of the 'lenses'.
I also see, when I said I don't know where I'm at? It implies there's still a questioner.(????)

Ilona:
hm, question does not necessarily imply a questioner. it's just a thought passing by. if there is stickiness, returning to the same question over and over again, then it is a good chance that there is something there waiting to be discovered.
you seem clear to me.

can you confirm, that you are ready for the final questions? have you seen through illusion of separate self?

sending love.

Roger:
No, there's no stickiness. What came up reading your email was, why is an identity still being assume, even if only as shadow? Compared to your clarity, its all thought. The other thing was slight feeling of nervousness at mention of final questions, though it was gone almost as soon as it arrived? There doesn't seem to be any investment being made here. What's also reassuring is that this is not so much an 'experience' as a shift. I've had experiences before and they come and go. Mind is remarkable clear most of time as well, thoughts are no longer moving armchairs in and taking up residence.
Yes, to your last question, separate self is seen as an illusion.

love from this end too, R

Ilona:
Awesome Roger!

here are the questions. Please answer in full when ready.

Roger:
Hi Ilona, 
Been a bit of delay as I've been busy, but I see from your website so have you. Here's my answers, slight confusion over what question 3 asked, but feel I've covered it in other answers. Didn't expect my answers to be so long, hope you're a speed reader!

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else? 

R. No there isn't a 'me' at all, anywhere, in any shape or form. It's a false sense of identification established with 'words' early in life.  Neither is there a self, 'self' is also only a word in thought, (none locatable as entity of any kind) that identifies experiences with body and creates illusion of a personal self/world. There is nothing that is separate from anything else, experience and experiencer are one. Experience is unique in whatever passing shape, form, or way, it's occurring, and is life meeting itself and celebrating Itself in world of apparent form. A seamlessness enfolds everything, that's the impression received, there is 'nowhere' for 'separateness' to exist, so must be only an idea, thought, in mind.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

R. As in 1 above plus: the repetition of words in early childhood, 'I',  'you', 'me', accompanied by pointing, and constant repetition of abstract name associated with body as object. Massive learning feat accomplished at very early age, though no necessary total, as children continue drawing sun with smiling face, and flowers with faces, etc. indicating everything seen as extension of Life itself. Word 'I' (thought) becomes attached to five senses, I see, I feel, I hear, creating illusion of there being a separate 'I' that is doing the seeing, hearing, feeling, capable of being a cause and having real effects. This idea is reinforced and confirmed by others thereby giving a validity to assumptions being made. Along with this, sense of free will is established, with responsibility for personal actions, so the world of separation arises, populated with concepts and thoughts substituted for Realty of.... What Is.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

R. There's slight confusion here with what this question asks? My experience of seeing separate self? 
There have been many occasions over past few years when I have seen, or been shown, separate self was illusion, none though that was apparently strong enough to blow it away for good. Recent past leading up to the present, seemed like there was only slight sense of self, but enough to act as a locator of experiences, i.e. troubled relationship with lady friend. Now any idea of 'troubled', or 'problem', or of there being 'questions' that might lead to clarity, has vanished. Now a clarity is present that accepts what is 'as' all that is, and as always momentarily passing and perfect. Sense of aloneness, spending much of time alone, has also vanished. As if that which was experiencing it has gone, that everything is part of everything else and so sufficient in its self such a state could never have existed.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it. 

R. Sense of separate self feels alienating, void inside is experienced, loneliness, boredom, become common experiences. Self feels cut off from world, which is experienced as arena for personal action, with self as motivator and responsible for actions. World and others seen as capable of acquiescing or resisting ones wishes, as being the cause of personal happiness, unhappiness, pain. Emotions are attributed to life situation and others. Sense of vulnerability and emotional dependency on how others respond to imaginary self is common experience. Others life style and behavior often blamed for causing pain. During life wall of defenses created against disappointment, everything becomes filtered through these defenses, which are seen as who we are, creating illusion of entity....'me', 'self', 'myself'. This wall can seem quite thick, but it's an illusion that can crumble at ones feet in moment. In my case, when time was right, by finger pointed and few words spoken. What was behind this wall....Who I really was... in all its glowing inappropriateness! I felt love for this one straight away, also realized this is where joy and happiness had made their home, so explaining why they'd been such rare visitors in my previous life. However, there was still one further step for me to take which I call the dropping of the penny.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

R. This is what I call penny dropping. The last bit that pushed me over was the statement made somewhere on your site, 'I is a thought. 'I' can't do anything.'  What happened then is the world seemed to shift and a sense of lightness came, a slight feeling like being high, huge feeling of relief and release. In retrospect it didn't seem to qualify to be called an 'experience', but something had changed, I knew that. There wasn't so much a burst of seeing, but the whole room seemed to be lighter, sense of the seeking head, which had been there few moments before vanished.

The week following there were other incidents, one occasioned with the statement...'A 'me' doesn't exist.' Something like that, and I remember being stunned by the implications of this. There was consistent happiness and lightness of being experienced each day, sometimes high, sometimes muted. Then a wave of gratitude hit....like a fountain in the heart that couldn't be turned off....for past life that had lived and all who had been in it. In street in early morning, to space for its spaciousness, that allowed the sounds of all the activity to echo around. Totally wacky! Glimpse from street of town I'd been brought to live in, tears coming up, overwhelming gratitude for gift that seemed beyond belief.

Little fireworks like this going off in awareness...writing email to friend...this popped up, in relation to having a cup of tea!, "Reality always reassures and confirms the you of YOU." Translated...Reality is Life meeting Life and celebrating Itself. This experience is affirming and uplifting....so can easily be distinguished from life lived under mental blanket. I realized there had been many such moments throughout my life, on beach watching sea, sunsets, dawns, experiences of nature, flowers, birds, animals, etc. but I had not understood what they were.

Ilona:
wow Roger, thank you for answers. i can see that the gate has been busted  :))
so happy for you. and yes, it is not the end, but the beginning of exploration, the journey continues, there still be ups and downs and no guaranty that you may never fall in to a trap of story, but what has been seen is always available to see again, in every moment.

thank you so much, for reaching out and getting this Roger character free.

may i have your permission to post this on my blog, so it may be of help to someone else and i can get you into aftercare groups. there is a whole community of us there, all that seen through this illusion of i and are sharing their journeys with honesty and love. it really is great support, when questions arise, when belief system starts melting and all structures start falling. would love if you joined. and even if you do not have a facebook account it is never too late to create one.

i can use your name, or whatever other name that you choose for the blog.

sending love.

Roger:
Hi Ilona, 
What a lovely wake up present your email was at 6am this morning....with fireworks going off celebrating Mexican Independence!!!!! 

Yes, you may use anything that's been said between us on your blog, and also my name. I would like to join the fb page, I already have an account and page there. Can you let me know how I do that, do I need invitation? I will also join the after care group, is that Liberation Unleashed, or the Forum, are they the same?

Thank you so much for taking me through all this, at last having someone out there who clarifies, and somewhere to share....a community, its incredible what you're doing.

I already have been sharing little bits of this at 12 Step meetings, it produces either defenses, silence, or embraces, the embraces tend to be in the singular, but two thank you's yesterday! I feel a need to give back some of what I've received, which is I'm sure what you doing.

No-self Is Not a New Kind of Identity, It's No Self At All

This was beautiful and heart opening. M came very ready and the process went smooth and quick. It does not mean it was easy, the meltdown and fear was there, disillusionment often comes with purging and burning. The fire was there, the readiness was there, all that she needed was final push. Enjoy.

M:
Dear Ilona:
I am so grateful for you and Elena.  I finished reading the book "Gatecrashers".  Thank you for giving it free on the internet.  So many things happened while reading and reflecting.  I am seeing so much fear coming up that I had no idea I even had.  I hear many people expressing fear and doubts, but I never felt them myself.  Until this week did I come to many recognitions and some amazing realizations.  I too like you started the advaita journey by reading my first book by Jed McKenna.  This was about six years and my life has never been the same.  I have only one real desire and that is to really know the truth. It appears you have assisted many people.  I don't feel I can go any further without help.  Do you have time?

Thank you for your honesty and no frills.  I am so tired of the the advaita speak.  I am not an intellect, I don't have the proper words for communicating this. But I do have the deepest love and desire to know.

I:
Hi M.

Thank you for email.
Glad to hear that the book has opened new view for you.
To go till the then one has to answer the question- is there a separate self at all?

So let's start from expectations, what is it that you expect at this point that the truth will do for you? What do you think this is all about? What do you want from seeing that there is no self at all?

Make a list and bring all of expectations with sincerity and honesty.

Sending love.

M:
Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with hopefully going through the "gateless gate".  I am so very grateful!!!!!

What expectations of what truth will give? 
Freedom from my repetitive thoughts that seem to 'control' me. 
To genuinely have zest for life, to be really excited about living.

I: it may or may not happen, depending on how much work you have to do to clean up the system after. it is not about eternal bliss.

M:
To see through  the veil once and for all.

I: Nice.

M: To see and feel the love and truly share with others.

I: this has nothing to do with love or heart opening. heart may or may not open with realization, but it is not a rule, that it does.
so leave this for now.


M: Trust in the universe, Freedom from conditioning.

I: freedom from conditioning comes with every belief released. we  are looking at the core belief here, that there is this i, me that owns conditioning. once that is seen as belief, not truth, then other conditioning starts to fall. it is not overnight process. may take months or years to settle it. so don't have your hopes high here, you do not wake up from conditioning, but to it, so finally it can start to clear.

trust in universe, yes.

I: What do I think this is all about?

M: I have been asking myself this question for a very long time.  When I was a teenager I would repeatedly ask what's this all about.  There has to be more than the struggle, there has to be something deeper than having a degree, having money, having IT all. Nothing has satisfied me...EVER!!!  No matter how successful or how many times I have gotten what I desired there is always something more.  This is when I really began this spiritual journey.  Now I think it's about being free and understanding who or what is this. 

I: no. it is about seeing that there is nothing to understand and no thoughts are reality. there is no who. as in zero. this does not come with cosmic download, it is rather ordinary. a loss of belief.

M: Why are we here, why do we exist? 

I: any answer to question why is a story. no story is reality. all is fiction. whatever you choose to belief about why is this or that is another belief.

M: Why is there so much belief in these thoughts in my head?

I: is it true? this is the best weapon in clearing them beliefs that have been accepted from others and your own trials to answer questions like what does it mean and why is this or that.

M: Sometimes I feel as though I am going crazy.  There are moments when I get it.  When I really see I am believing these thoughts and that there is an I a witnesser.  Then there are times when the I is not present everything is just happening, but then the story comes in with a vengeance and I am gone.

I: i does not exist, it is only a thought, but we will get to it.


I: What do I want from seeing that there is no self at all?

M: Peace.  Knowing, I mean really really knowing that we all are or come from love. 

I: you want to know truth or you want the truth to fit your ideal model of truth? don't expect an answer, you are going to see it for yourself.

M: To stop believing all the negative thoughts and stop beating myself up for the mistakes I have made.  Thoughts stopping from the past and projecting the future.  I am so aware of this happening inside.  It drives me crazy. I try to be a better person and that doesn't work. I try to stop that doesn't work.  I try to see there is no I doing anything, that doesn't stick.  It just makes me feel worse when I fail.

I: yes, i know that one. the stickiness goes, that is one thing that happens.

M: I know intellectually all the correct answers, but I don't know it from the "heart".  
I am not censoring anything here.  I am just typing without any concern for how it will look or if the grammar is correct. Too much work!  I am so tired of trying, trying, and trying. And yet here I am writing you and giving it my all.  Really no control at all, is there???  

I: good stuff.

M: I was so afraid to write you because I realized at the "heart" level this will be the end.

I: no it is not the end. it is a beginning.

M: I realized I really didn't want the "game" to be over. 

I: this is not game over, there is nothing to loose, only mind gets clear from misunderstandings, clear of assumptions. the game is only about to start.  :)

M: I can see now that before this I really wasn't ready.  I have embraced this fear and I am open to what is next.  There are a lot of I's and I am's in this, but I can't get caught up in the advaita speak. 

I: no need at all for advaita speak.

M: I am sure you can know where I am coming from.
Thank you so much for being here. I am very nervous but excited at the same time 

I: write to me what triggered you the most.
are you ready for the next step?
lost of love...

M:
Hi Ilona:
Thank you for responding so quickly.  What triggered me the most?

First: I always heard and it seems that when people really go beyond the "gate" they have this love for life (no matter what is happening). I used to think that there would be eternal bliss but after reading your book I realize that is not the case.

Heart opening: I think I really don't know what that means.  I have heard it referenced so much that I thought this would happen also.  I can let that one go too.

Freedom from conditioning: After it is truly seen that there is no "I", I do know that is only the beginning, what I mean by game over is that once it is seen there is no going back.  Just like using your wonderful example of Santa.  Also I suppose I mean that falling away will begin to occur.

It is about seeing that there is nothing to understand and no thoughts are reality.  I understand that asking the question who am I is useless here.  When the I belief is dropped there is no who!
No wonder after all these years that never worked!!!

you do not wake up from conditioning, but to it, so finally it can start to clear.  I haven't a clue how to wake up from conditioning?

Why do we exist is another belief?  I never looked at it that way

Is this True?  I tried the Byron, Katie method, it just frustrated me.  I mean really nothing is really true, but I still believe in the story sometimes.  Especially "i am not good enough"

I am so ready for the next step. Fear and anxiousness is arising, but at the same time I feel as though this is exactly where I am supposed to be, with you.

Thank you  sooooooooooooo much.  
I know I does not exist but not for real.

I:
Sweet M.
Thank you for answers.
I see you are ripe and ready to move on.

So.. Let this thought in.

There is no self at All in reality, no me as a general manager of life, no owner of life, no watcher, no I that is in control of anything that happens. None at all as in zero.
All there is if life happening by itself.


Sit with this for a while and write to me what thoughts and feelings, sensations come up.

Lots of love.

M: Dearest Ilona:

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you.  Thank you.


I have had this question in my mind for the past few days. Am I just trading I exist thought to I don't exist thought?

It has rung true to me in the past, that all along I have wanted the "I/Me" to experience the no "I".  So how can I trust this to happen to a me that doesn't exist?  I did the steps on your blog about three days before I contacted you and this is what happened.  I really saw there was no doer only happening occurring. The final straw was when you asked the question is there even a witness-er?  It just hit me like a ton of bricks.  It was the first time I had the sensations of openness, oneness, no second.  The rest of the evening I just sat in my chair in wonder, smiling.  

Then the next day I had a HUGE melt down.  The thoughts came flooding in with a vengeance. I really was loosing my mind.  You see after reading Jed's trilogy I went into a phase an annihilation.  I sold my house at a huge loss, sold almost all of my possessions and lived off my savings.  Feeling sorry for myself all the way through the process. Got a few jobs which I stayed at for a year and then moved on to another. Never being satisfied with all areas of my life.  Now this may seem like a sob story (which it is), but I knew somehow this was the only way for me to really, really know that I was committed to finding the truth.  So with that the "spiritual" journey really began.  It took me all this time to truly know that I would never be settled until I saw the truth. It took me to loose almost everything to really know that I can not find happiness in the external (now i see how ridiculous this is. Just another bloody story) .  

But... When I am feeling most out of sorts I beat myself to a pulp for making such stupid decisions.  Yes, there is no one here to do such a thing and yet here I am.  So after reading the story in your book about the husband and wife reading Jed's book and what the husband did, it made me feel like such an ass.  I realized I did all this for absolutely nothing.  It was as if I was punishing myself for all the success's I had. Spiritual people don't live awesome prosperous lives (what a butt head). After reading the husband story it just triggered what I had done also. which made me feel like an even bigger foooooool!!!!   I had this huge melt down and went into my I am a "failure" I am so unhappy story. Crying went on for hours (no exaggeration). The next day I couldn't function.  I rarely watch TV.  And here I sat in front of the TV for nine hours.  I have never done this ever!  I just couldn't think, I was numb. How in the hell does one have such an amazing experience and then go to the darkest place ever.  This is when I knew I was so fearful of loosing the SELF.  My God I had no idea how much fear I had stored up. That evening I said this is it.  I am going to finish reading your and Elena's' book and then write to Ilona and see what happens.  

I am so sorry for being so verbose, I just felt it was important for you to see how sometimes I get it and sometimes it's like I haven't gotten any progress whatsoever. 

So these are the sensations that come up... fear and excitement, right now at this moment I understand (but not a seeing) there is no one driving the bus...I am still believing "I" exist somewhere inside of this body/mind.  
Some of this "I" belief has worn down from the other day despite the meltdown.  I feel like I am on the edge, I just need the push.  No actually there is a readiness that is felt somewhere. 


This is freedom, isn't it?? 
There is no self at All in reality, no me as a general manager of life, no owner of life, no watcher, no I that is in control of anything that happens. None at all as in zero. 
All there is if life happening by itself. 

I:
Hi M.

We are not trading I to no-I here. You are looking to see what is really going on.

When you realized that Santa wasn't real, was it traded to no-Santa? ( or whatever magical fantasy you had as a child. )

There is no I and there never was. No- self is not a new kind of identity, it's no self at all.

Thank you for writing how your days were going before you contacted me. It's not easy when the whole belief structure is crumbling. Meltdown is often a case.

But it has passed. This too shall pass. There is no permanent state.

Ok, now please focus on the phrase that I gave you in the previous message and answer not from the past, not from thoughts about what happened, but what does it feel right when you read it and let it sink in now.
For a few minutes consider that this is real possibility. There never was a self, that means there is nothing to loose.

Do this little exercise- Close your eyes. Imagine you are holding a melon between your hands.  Imagine it vividly, shape, weight, texture... Hold it there. 

Open your eyes. 

What happened to the melon? Was it replaced with no-melon? Did it disappear? Did it get lost?

THIS is the same case with the self. The self is imagined.

M: Hello Dear One:
There is no I and there never was. No- self is not a new kind of identity, it's no self at all.
Ah yes this makes total sense.  Thank you for the clarity.  I just want to make sure I am not fooling myself into another belief.

When I focus on the phrase: 

"There is no self at All in reality, no me as a general manager of life, no owner of life, no watcher, no I that is in control of anything that happens. None at all as in zero. 
All there is if life happening by itself."  

It feels true but then I think I am just convincing myself it is true. I need to investigate there never was an I. Quite honestly this is where I get stuck.  It still feels like I am adopting another concept.

I am going to let this settle, it's not like this isn't the first time I have heard this.  I just haven't seen it, i don't know to further/beyond!!!!!! Frustration is arising...but I am not giving up until it is SEEEN.

Thank you so much.
love, love M

I: thank you for answer.

let's look deeper now. of course you have heard this concept, but until it is seen, it is a concept.
so tell me, what would be lost if that was true.
what is happening not on automatic?
what is it that frustration happening to?

what does word me point to?
what is i?

M: Hello Ilona:
Once again Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. It seems this is all I live for right now.

let's look deeper now. of course you have heard this concept, but until it is seen, it is a concept
Yes this is exactly how it is right now.

so tell me, what would be lost if that was true. 
If this is true that there is no "I", then there is indeed nothing to loose, it never was in the first place.  Somehow I know this but a "seeing" not yet.

what is happening not on automatic?
I have to make an effort to keep believing in everything, especially that the "I" exists somewhere inside of me. It is exhausting.

what is it that frustration happening to?
Me believing in the contents of the thoughts

what does word me point to?
A belief that me exists inside my head

what is i?
I don't know, I can't seem to find it, but it is still believed it exists.

Damn Ilona I feel so close and yet sooooooooo far.

Thanks for taking the time with me.  I can't tell you enough how long I have waited for someone to help me see through this.

love  

I: In order to see you need to look. See if it's true, notice what confirms it in your experience, look with eyes, not with mind. It's not about finding explanation but seeing it in your own experience.

So right now, is there an I anywhere in the room, in the body?
Is there batman hanging around?
How do you know he is not?

Same with I. It's is imagined. Can that which is imagined be seen, experienced through senses?

Look and notice, what is here, what can be experienced, compare to imaginary characters. How is M different from batman?

"I have to make an effort to keep believing in everything, especially that the "I" exists somewhere inside of me. It is exhausting."
Is this not on automatic?

"what is it that frustration happening to?
Me believing in the contents of the thoughts"

Look closer here. What is this that is labeled frustration.? Sensations in the body, right?

Are these sensations happening to a me?

"what does word me point to?
A belief that me exists inside my head"

A belief. Yes. Other thoughts ABOUT me, but is there a real me?
Does table need you to believe in it to be here?

"what is i?
I don't know, I can't seem to find it, but it is still believed it exists".

I is a thought.
Me is a thought.
Self is a thought.
Batman is a thought
Table is a thought.

The difference between those thoughts that one of them point to something real, while others point to imaginary stuff. Can you see that?

M:
Hi Ilona:

I re-read the questions from last time and realized the question what is happening not on automatic?
I answered it as what is automatic in my mind.  I realized what you were really asking.  After sitting quietly I realized everything seems to be automatic.  Even my belief that there is an I thinking.  It's very subtle but I can't see anything that "I" do, it does seem to be just happening.

I will sit and investigate and see what is seen before responding. Look with eyes, yes.

Thank you for your patience.
love M

I:
Yes, notice how body reacts to stimulus, how choices are made, how everything works on itch follows scratch  manner.

Try this-
Lift your left arm above the head 

Do it now 

Did it happen? 
Did you choose to do it or not? 
Did it happen and then mind kicked in evaluating what happened? 

Good place for observation is shower :)

Write to me when ready. Take your time. I'm here to assist.

Much love.

M:
Hi Ilona:
Okay I am on fire.  I just finished reading your reply previous to this one.
Yes, yes and yes, I is imagined.  I can only stay "alive" as long as I is believed to be true. Just like Santa, Santa here today (only in thought),gone as soon as the thought is dropped, the real joke is that it (I) never existed in the first place.

I: exactly. nothing happened to Santa, the joke was on a kid.

M: I am stuck in this automatic.  Is everything automatic, even the thought I exists somewhere in the body?

I: see if you can find what is NOT on automatic.

M: Sensations are happening to the body, but then the mind comes in and claims its happening to me.  This is when the story comes in and I take ownership of all actions.  Something as simple as raising my arm to what a bad decision I made five years ago.

"I is a thought.  
Me is a thought. 
Self is a thought. 
Batman is a thought 
Table is a thought."
The only way an I survives is through a thought there is an I. An I needs to be believed in order for it to exist.   Yes this is seen.

I: even if it is believed it does not exist. remember Santa? when did he exist? it is a misunderstanding. that is all. unquestioned assumption.

M: Is it like this?  Sensation happens then action happens, without any effort at all. Is it just the mind (habit, conditioning) taking ownership of the action or outcome.

I: yes.
mind is a labeling machine.

try this exercise.


http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html
write to me what you learned.

M: see if you can find what is NOT on automatic.
Okay for real??  everything is automatic??  
I had done the label exercise last week (that was when i had that huge opening), realizing that it is all happening and not to a me.  So I did it again and it is seen no one hearing, typing, breathing, to infinity.  This is becoming more obvious.  

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?  So everything that has happened or is happening is being labeled by the mind and a good outcome or a bad outcome.  The content of the thoughts "beat" up the label I and we are back in the saddle of I am this I am that. At the end of it all its imagination and believing all thoughts are true.

Is this going to stay with me?

Thank you seems so trite to say to you.  much love  m
..............

Hello Ilona:

I am now facing the reality that there is no I.  I really don't know where to go from here.  Questions have seem to have subsided a bit.  But I still feel a stickiness to this identity.  I am feeling a bit lost.  It's funny how I feel more connected to you than people I am with daily.  I know there is no loss in the I since it never existed, but I am feeling hollow.  

This is weird, I thought I had responded to you but I don't see a sent email.  I haven't given up.  I am not "stopping" until this is clearly unequivocally seen.
 love m

I: Keep staring.
What is identity? How would you define it?
How would you define what is batman's identity? Has he got one?
Is there real identity?

Sending love.

M: Hi Ilona:
Ah.  There is no action figure.  It is the same fictitious thought as an I existing.  I get this now. But the last few days I am feeling numb, empty does this pass?  Even fear arises, I can never go back in believing in the I. Does this need 'time' to settle.
love m

"yes it is so simple, that mind sometimes refuses to accept it as this. it loves to complicate everything, create and solve problems, so it may be threatened by the fact, that there is really nothing to figure out, so it tries to hold on to whatever it can, so it would not disappear. funny thing is, it does not disappear, it only gets clearer. thinking slows down and there is a deeper sense of peace. yes, all search is about ending the search, but when there is a real possibility that it may actually end, there is panic, as there is so much invested in that searcher identity, that it is difficult to even consider the possibility for it to be waste of time and life. everyone is different, your experience is unique, trust that. all is unfolding as it should."

I just finished reading what you wrote on your blog.  You described to A, exactly what has been happening the past few days. Question arising this can't be this simple.  It is indeed this simple.  I am so used to grabbing onto this alleged identity.  All concerned that I will lose myself to this "awakening" I will disappear.  I won't be able to relate to my friends my sisters, workmates.  Today panic arose, depression  all the old patterns of "my identity", old stories that have become my identity, my friends my foe.  
Trust...yes this is unfolding as it should.
Thank you, much love m

I: dear one, everything passes, there is no such thing as permanent state. all is a flux, all is one movement. to see that, get out into nature, watch, how everything moves in synchronic manner, how everything wiggles, including your body and thoughts. all this movement is happening effortlessly, notice nothing moves clouds, nothing blows wind, nothing moves trees, nothing moves your legs and arms, all just happens.

when you spend some time in nature, write to me, what you noticed. is there anything separate from life?

sending love and a hug.

M:
Yes, Thank you Ilona.  I just finished reading your blog with A.  So much clarity.  Thank you for sharing. I was doubting the past day and it has already passed.  Just being able to write you and have guidance has been exactly what is needed. I will write you later.  thank you 
a feeling of love is coming that has not been felt before.  thank you 
.................

M:
Hi Ilona:
I had some time to spend in nature at the beach. It is seen with out doubt that all does indeed happen. Birds fly across the water, just skimming the surface with out any effort.  One plucks a fish out of water and flies away. A flock of birds comb the beach on foot and peck away at the sand.  There is no I functioning just happenings. I sit on the bench and then start walking, it wasn't thought 'oh I think I'll walk now', it literally just happens.  I look across the ocean toward horizon, in awe of all of this mystery. Life just happening without the presence of an I.  No commentator, no what if's.  Just what is.  Seamlessly with out effort.  Thoughts came "in" and left just as gently. I have seen the metaphor a million times-thoughts are like clouds.  It is seen here that thoughts are exactly like this. Clouds don't affect the sky anymore that thoughts affect the body/mind. Effort seems to be less each day.  It is not to say that life is now effortless, it always was and is this way, flowing, moving, happening.  Yes it is seen somehow, and yet there is no I seeing.

I: oh that is just beautiful. yes, it is seen, and there is no i doing seeing. well done.

how is your everyday life going, did you notice any changes, big or subtle?
are you ready for the final questions, can you confirm that the shift has happened?

sending love.

M:
Dear Ilona:
I can't thank you enough for taking the time to guide me through this.  The seeing can not be unseen.  I also see what you were talking about before, that this is just the beginning.  
There was no huge event per-say, there was a seeing that there never ever was an I, a self to get anything.  At first I freaked out, (as i had described to you before).  Once the fear passed and it was realized that this to is just a thought being believed, all was well. 

Everyday life seems to be more alive and flowing.  Everything is happening as the same before, but there is a certain taste of life that appears. It's almost as if it's more gentle, even though a lot of activity has been happening.  When reactions happen they come and go easier.  It's almost as if its a tangible intelligence that has and always was running the show.  Things are taken less and less personal, it is becoming more automatic. I always go back to where is this character who is taking this to heart. It is becoming more automatic. Don't get me wrong I know there is more to "burn".  But the frustration of "getting" this has dropped, it can't even be described as peace it just is.

Of course doubt sets in when you ask can I confirm that a shift has happened.  I have trusted you this far so let's keep going.
So much love to you Ilona

I:
Oh yes, I can see that what you describe rings true.  :))) delighted... I feel you.

Sounds that you are ready for the last questions.
Please answer in full when ready. As you see, in full.

M:
Dear Ilona:
Grateful to you.
Before answering these last questions I wanted to confirm when the seeing actually happened.  
I asked you this question: I have had this question in my mind for the past few days. Am I just trading I exist thought to I don't exist thought? 
You responded:

"We are not trading I to no-I here. You are looking to see what is really going on." 
"When you realized that Santa wasn't real, was it traded to no-Santa? ( or whatever magical fantasy you had as a child. ) 
There is no I and there never was. No- self is not a new kind of identity, it's no self at all".   This was the final push.  I knew then to never doubt what I had seen.  That this truly can not be unseen. Oh my God so much love here!!!

As it is seen in full

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
NO I, at all anywhere.  Not only that it is seen there are no I's in this world, there is no separate entities running around this planet. It just appears to look that way.  When it is seen that no i, me, mine exists it becomes one appearance, no actually it doesn't become this, it always was this way. No doers, no planners, controllers, and no observing. Yes habits arise and judgments come.  But the stickiness gets lessened. The judgements are not taken seriously. 

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of a separate self is that we all have this belief that there is an I inside this body/mind.  That anything that happens to this imagined me is very very serious, life threatening.  We are taught to guard, protect and fight to keep it safe.  We are and have been willing to die, lie, kill anything to keep this belief alive.  We have created an identity, that is so strong that we live for years maybe even lifetimes to keep it in tact.  We have created the illusion that we are separate and I am better than or lesser than someone else. There is no in-between we think we are either worthy or unworthy, depending on the story at that moment .  

Why do we believe and buy into this...we had no choice. When it starts and how it works?
As soon as we are able to understand me and mama, the birth of separation.  We are taught through words and believe all these words to be the absolute truth.  How could we not...mom wouldn't steer us wrong. I am baby and you are mommy, separate right from the start.  My body, my stuff, my thoughts, my words. Words turn into thoughts and then thoughts have content which is what we think is really happening. This is imagined.  This imagination actually thinks it is thinking, doing, living.  Ha!!!!  This is the big illusion.  Thoughts happen but the interpretation, the commentator is all imagination.    

 3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
Initially I didn't trust that seeing happened. When you said no-self ever existed never was!!! I knew without a doubt this is true.  Now we could get all technical about there is no I to get this, and this would be true.  But all we have are words to express what is happening.  There is such a flow (and I don't mean an airy fairy, fantasy flow) that is happening.  Somehow it is seen here how magical everything really is.  That it is indeed a mystery and how amazing that is. I am authentically excited about what is here now and now!  There is a deep gratitude for being, living.  Life in life-in.  I have this sweet gentle smile.  It's almost as if its coming from inside and yet it has no beginning and no stopping point.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
I would have them do what you did with me. Write down everything.  Really investigate what is true and what is imagined.  To look and see. Don't trust the mind it is very tricky. Question everything that comes up. Most important ask can you find this I, this me that you think is running the show.  I have tried this solo and I knew I needed guidance.  Here it was needed to have a guide, it just happened to be Ilona. Trust that you will be guided by someone who knows the truth, you will know who that is.   Lastly I would say this is not a passive investigation: it takes brutal honesty and commitment. Writing, crying, laughing oh hell all emotions may arise.   I would have them go to your website and check it out.  See it what they read rings true.  I am not saying you and Liberation Unleashed is the end all...but this "i" was ready and somehow I just knew this was exactly where i was lead to. 

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
Well I could say it was gradual but there was a moment when all belief in the I was seen to be imagined.  BUT after this clear seeing...Doubt came in with a vengeance, it can't be this easy, it can't be this obvious.  Come on M, your kidding yourself.  I looked at that thought and realized the fear i had been holding was coming out of the body.  I thought for sure i was going to vomit, be sick never recover.  Be a vegetable, no mind, no identity.  How will i live.  And on and on.  For a full day I was incapacitated.  That evening I looked again. Who or where is this entity that is going to suffer all these horrible things.  I didn't care what happened if I die or if I am going to loose it all, so what.  I could not go on like this any longer.  So I looked again:  I realized I exchanged the belief from 'I exist' to 'I am my identity', thinking this thought was different.  I wrote to you what was happening and you gently pushed me a little further to see through this experience of doubt.  You just cut through the story and said

"Thank you for writing how your days were going before you contacted me. It's not easy when the whole belief structure is crumbling. Meltdown is often a case. But it has passed. This too shall pass. There is no permanent state." 

 This was not the first time i heard this, but it was the only time i saw this.  Yay :)  Woah! That was exactly what i needed. Honestly I would have probably convinced myself that I was fooling myself.  This is never going to be seen by you (unworthy), not  intelligent enough, not enough, not enough. With your questions I really had to look at what i was believing, what i was expecting from all of this.  You were there at the crucial moments.  I don't now how this all happens but it did and it does.

I see this is indeed the beginning and for the first time ever I am excited about life without a reason.  My God, Ilona, there needs to be a deeper word for the gratitude i have for you being here. 
Now i know why you sign off correspondence each time with; so much love. I see this too.
so much love, m

I:
Dear M, your email touched my heart. you say we need a deeper word to express gratitude, from where i see, there is no need for words, it is felt. that can never be expressed in any way, but it reaches out from heart to heart, like a little flame. :)

may i have your permission to post our conversation on my blog, so that it may be of benefit to someone else and i can get you into the groups on facebook, for continuous support after this crossing the line.

let me know if you ok to use your name. if not, it can be changed to whatever you prefer.

sending tons of love.

M:
Dear Ilona;
Of course you can post this conversation.  You can just use my first initial that would be great. 
Yes after care as you have termed it is needed here. I know this has to settle and I am so excited about going deeper.  It is the beginning. Thank you for your availability.  It seems there a lot of people out there that need to have someone guiding them.  There is nothing out there like this.  What is happening here is such a gift. Heart to heart, it is felt, can't be described...much love going out to you.

images from http://www.advancedphotoshop.co.uk/user/Sylwiaa and photo of sea by ilona.