Lakshmi: There Is NOONE...Oh My God!!

Lakshmi

Jul 27

Hello dear Ilona,

I am Lakshmi from Hyderabad, India. I have been going through the articles in your blog for quite sometime. I am also looking but may be not deep, not sure!!

I was waiting for you to help me but  few weeks ago you were not available. I even asked my cousin, Tarun to help me connect to you.

Can you please guide and help me for the shift.

Regards,

Lakshmi  

Ilona

Jul 27

Hi Lakshmi.

Thank you for email.

Yes we can have a conversation, now is a good time.

Tell me a bit about your journey and where you are at the moment. What are you looking for, what do you expect from this process, what do you think this will give you.

Take your time to write down all expectations and find those hidden ones too. Honesty is the key here.

Looking forward to hear from you.

Kind regards

Lakshmi

Jul 29

Hi Ilona,

As I said earlier, since the time Tarun introduced me to this technique, I have been trying to look at things around and yes, I could never find a separate "I" existing and it's always a thought. I am at this stage. I am able to appreciate the labeling the mind does all the time.

I am looking for "I” still.....expecting that i should feel light and easy sometime, may be i am not looking enough so not feeling it right away.

My expectations from this process are like i should be able to enjoy life, should be able to say that life is beautiful as many realized people said it after they got awakened to this truth of life, to be in the happy state irrespective of the on-going life.

I have a habit of reacting to everything around soon so i silently keep expecting this quality of mine to change after this process.....

I hope i spoke with honesty ,

Thanks and many regards,

lakshmi.

Ilona

Jul 30

Hi Lakshmi.

As I said earlier,since the time Tarun introduced me to this technique,i have been trying to look at things around and yes,i could never find a separate "I" existing and its always a thought.

 What is that you find when looking for the I?

I am looking for "I" still.....expecting that i should feel light and easy sometime ,may be i am not looking enough so not feeling it right away.

 What is the first I here, that is looking for the I?

My expectations from this process are like i should be able to enjoy life,should be able to say that life is beautiful as many realized people said it after they got awakened to this truth of life.,

 That's all right :)

to be in the happy state irrespective of the on-going life.

This is not realistic. There is no happy ever after. Life goes on as it does and things happen. It's not about a happy state at all. It's about seeing what is already obvious. 

If you expect that seeing no self is going to give you an eternal bliss, it's just a fantasy. 

I have a habit of reacting to everything around soon so i silently keep expecting this quality of mine to change after this process.....

 Reactions happen when buttons are pressed.  When there are wounds, unresolved issues, repressed feelings, of course, reactions will happen.

I hope i spoke with honesty,

Thank you.

Before we go further, you got to leave all expectations behind. It is not what you expect at all.  Mind can never imagine. And having expectations is trying to fit what is seen into the frame of what it should look like. 

Ok, tell me what comes up, when you let this thought in-

There is no I at all, no separate self, no entity that is in charge of this peace if life, no manager, no controller, no doer, no thinker, no watcher. All there is is life flowing freely as one movement.

Write what reactions to this statement come up.

Sending love.

Lakshmi

Jul 30

Hi Ilona,

what is it that i find when i am looking for I?

I find body, mind, senses exist and doing their job but can’t find an "I" existing. i can see things existing everywhere around but can’t see any I.

What is the first I when looking for I?

Well, i really don’t know but looks like this body, mind complex is the" I" which is looking for an I.....

The mind which is working as "I"??!!

My reactions when i read the statement

I feel shocked, surprised, I feel it's such a joke that there is no self existing, feels like laughing aloud.

feel sad, depressed too, feel painful

feel sick,

feel" then, what now?"

oh my god

How could this be?

This is what i feel as of now.

Love,

Lakshmi.

Ilona

Jul 30

Yeah, it's very simple and not even hidden.

Write more, what do you notice.

Was there ever an I there?

Sending love

Lakshmi

Aug 1

Hi Ilona,

Yes, there is no "I" wherever i see, but yes the "I" THAT IS USUALLY FELT IS THE MIND WITH THIS BODY PROBABLY.

It is very strange to see the affairs happening around. Every concept, movement around revolves around this so called "I"

So much of identification which only gives temporary states of happiness, grief and all other emotions. What are all these faiths, beliefs, relationships for? when there is no "I" existing...

Can illusion of "I" be so powerful that it can dictate everything around?

Its relatively easily to LOOK when i am in a happy or neutral state but LOOKING is so difficult in angry or a sad state or in diseased or suffering state..

Only body, mind, senses, memory exist and are felt and are functioning all the time in the day today affairs.

From the childhood till the present moment all that which is registered through the senses in the memory  is used for living, working, growing etc

Emotions, behavioral patterns, movements all are happening from the stored memory, conditioning....

Noone seems to be having any control over the inputs and the outputs of living and the life....

Everything is just happening and you are a part of it..

like a dry leaf which fell off from the tree into the flowing water....

Lakshmi

Aug 3

Hi Ilona, whatever I look at I feel that other than the existing fact, a picture or the sound there is constant labeling of the mind that goes on and on, the silence is broken with the constant chattering of the mind. the thoughts keep on coming from somewhere, when senses are doing their job, the

thoughts come from our saved memory, past, conditioning, expectations etc .   There was never an "I" because the "I" that was there when I was child was the label to this body mind complex which totally is changed and different from what exists now. This can't be "I”. Was there never any "I"? Thoughts, feelings, emotions, actions, reactions are happening as a game, as a sequence, as a jigsaw puzzle. it is just happening, going on and on. Noone seems to be having any control. When there is no "I"...then there is only LIFE going on...

Ilona

Aug 3

Hi Lakshmi.

Hi Ilona, whatever I look at I feel that other than the existing

fact, a picture or the sound there is constant labeling of the mind

that goes on and on, the silence is broken with the constant chattering of the mind.

Yes, there is a voice talking, labeling everything and telling stories.

the thoughts keep on coming from somewhere,

Take a good look- where are thoughts coming from? What is behind them? Is there a thinker?

when senses are doing their job, the thoughts come from our saved

memory, past, conditioning, expectations etc.

So it appears, but have a closer look. Is there 'stored memory' in your experience? Is there past? Future? Is there a container that contains thoughts?

Is there anyone that the voice is talking to? Is anyone listening? Are you the voice that keeps talking?

Examine this closely and write to me the answers that feel true to each question.

  

Sending love.

Lakshmi

Aug 10

Hi Ilona,

Been busy last few days. but looking most of the time and its been a very lovely experience of feeling light. no emotion seem to be staying for long. the answers for the doubts that come up seem to be effortlessly flowing in and making it easy...

it feels too good, trust me!

will write to you in more detail in next 2 days

Thanks,

Regards,

Lakshmi.

Ilona

Aug 10

Sounds lovely!

Tell me more :)

Lakshmi

Aug 12

True, the life seems to happen....

going on and on..

but this mind takes the charge, labels and tells stories all the time. It does appear there is a THINKER but that is again the mind which is saying i believe. The body with mind and senses is the thinker, actor, feeler, reactor and all looks like it projects and reacts, imagines, creates....yes!

because otherwise there is noone.!!!!

The world, the people, the relationships, their qualities looks like jigsaw puzzle pieces fitting into each other and collectively appearing as the world around..

There is no THINKER except the interference and chattering of the mind all the time,...

Oh god!!! but the identification is too much that it appears as the only real thing existing.. and spins a web of world around that "I"

But, Yes when i look it seems to be clear.

In spite of all this still it becomes difficult to look in sad moods....so called the hurt moods and the sad moods.... but yes the answer does come almost immediately..

All the time the question comes who is there to hurt and who is there to get hurt....

Vowwww!!!

Is this True????

Is it getting clearer?

Anyways, Thanks Ilona!!!

Regards,

Ilona

Aug 12

Hi Lakshmi.

True,the life seems to happen....

going on and on..

but this mind takes the charge, labels and tells stories all the time.

That is it's job, one of the functions is labeling everything, describing experience. It recognizes what is seen, heard, experienced.

It does appear there is a THINKER but that is again the mind which is saying i believe. The body with mind and senses is the thinker, actor, feeler, reactor and all looks like it projects and reacts, imagines, creates....yes! 

So it appears, but is it true, really?

because otherwise there is noone.!!!!

Yes, there is no one. It's not that something is absent, there is nothing there, emptiness.

but the identification is too much that it appears as the only real thing existing. And spins a web of world around that "I"

What is I? Take a closer look.

But, Yes when i look it seems to be clear.

See, every time you look it's clear.  So keep looking in every situation where it appears that there is a doer, choose, manager, etc. each identification is an invitation to look deeper. 

In spite of all this still it becomes difficult to look in sad moods....

The thing with feelings is that all they want is to be felt fully and openly. There is no need to analyse feelings. It's an energetic thing going on. When you name the emotion it appears solid. When you don't name it, it's a movement of sensations in the body. Feel is as it comes, when it comes and it will pass quickly. You don't need to do anything else. Just feel.

so called the hurt moods and the sad moods....but yes the answer does come almost immediately..

All the time the question comes who is there to hurt and who is there to get hurt....

There is no who. So asking who? question is in itself creating an illusion.  Is there a feeler? Is there an I here right now? Is there a doer of this action (reading right now)

Is it getting clearer? 

Yes! Keep digging. 

Much love.

Lakshmi

Aug 16

Hi Ilona,

There seem to be nothing  existing other than this body mind complex

and the world just runs on the constant chattering of the mind

MIND, yes, THE MIND is the one that runs the world nothing else is present...

the nonstop stories, expectations, chattering, commentary, of the mind that’s happening...

Everything that’s happening is just with this mind that’s talking,

the mind orders and the body reacts...

The mind is conditioned day after day and it talks.....

Every being is a complex of body, mind and senses together..

No there is no doer to this action of mine right now, whether its reading the mail, typing it. Everything is happening...

There is continuous happening and all else is the commentary of the mind, not real....

Thanks Ilona,

LOVE,

Lakshmi

Aug 17

The "I" is just a thought from the MIND

This thought is the strongest that can ever happen...

and then the drama of the mind unfolds around this "I'

Its just too much...

The world is but the combination of our thoughts, words, actions...

thoughts mostly look like coming from somewhere not known....

Ilona

Aug 17

There seem to be nothing existing other than this body mind complex

Really? So body exists and nothing else does?

Interesting.

and the world just runs on the constant chattering of the mind

MIND ,yes, THE MIND is the one that runs the world ,nothing else is present...

 What is this mind you are talking about? What does word mind point to?

the nonstop stories, expectations, chattering, commentary, of the mind that’s happening...

Are stories all there is? Take a look at what is underneath the stories. Does experience need stories in order to be happening?

Test with senses. When you taste something, does experience of tasting require a story to make it happen?

Get out of the head into sensations and see what is there. 

Sending love

Ilona

Aug 17

The "I" is just a thought from the MIND

This thought is the strongest that can ever happen...

No it is not.  It's an empty thought. What is that makes it strong?

The world is but the combination of our thoughts, words, actions...

The thoughts about world create an image. But there is something else here besides mind created image. What is here now? Take a Look.

Thoughts mostly look like coming from somewhere not known....

And take a good look, where thoughts are coming from.  Look till you see. 

Lakshmi

Aug 17

No, the experience doesn't need any stories... experience of tasting doesn't need a story definitely.

The experience is going on and will go on without all this commentary

The mind i meant means is the bundle of thoughts..

The body i meant is this physical body which i can see with the senses..

the sensations are happening and it is happening, no stories or anything required for this.

The "I" is just an empty thought but gets stronger with the stories, desires, expectations etc

yes, otherwise it is an empty thought.

will keep writing ,

thanks, Lakshmi..

Ilona

Aug 18

The mind i meant means is the bundle of thoughts..

What is a bundle of thoughts? Is that not just another thought?

Check if there is some kind of container that holds thoughts in a bundle?

The body i meant is this physical body which i can see with the senses..

Have a good look, what is the I that sees? What is seeing? What is looking? Is there a line between I and senses in experience?

the sensations are happening and it is happening, no stories or anything required for this.

The "I" is just an empty thought but gets stronger with the stories, desires, expectations etc

yes, otherwise it is an empty thought.

What is that makes I thought stronger? Take a close look here.

Sending love.

  

Lakshmi

Aug 19

Hi Ilona,

Yes, there is no container of thoughts definitely...

it’s just another thought or a label  given to the thoughts that flow probably..

no neither the "I" nor the senses seem to be existing as such except that the actions are happening and the labeling goes on which we express in words and names...

No there is no line, the senses are acting, the actions are happening and the rest is the labeling or the commentary....

Will write more,

Thanks,

Love ,

Ilona

Aug 19

Dear Lakshmi,

Good work.

Let’s explore language today.  Notice how language creates a doer that is doing the action. See how subject is part of labeling action.

I breathe- breathing is happening.

Is it I that does breathing?

Does it matter which words describe experience? Does description affect what is happening?

There is an exercise in this post. Do it and write to me what you noticed

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

Explore language while talking to people, listening, reading and so on.

Sending love.

Lakshmi

Aug 20

Hi Ilona,

Yes, i just did the exercise in the post you sent,

When i was doing the first part, I felt a sort of palpitations and pain here and there,

but when i did the second part there was a sort of emptiness and hollowness and vacuum in the body as if it was all empty inside...

What i felt at the end when i compare is that actions happening without me are happening anyways and truer than the actions with me because labels are not affecting the experience and only are used for describing.

"I" IS JUST USED FOR COMMUNICATION, DESCRIPTION.....it doesn't have any existence

Love,

Lakshmi

Ilona

Aug 20

Nice! Yes, description is practical and useful in communication. :) you are getting close

How about word I, is it empty or it points to a separate entity that life is happening to?

When word I is used in description of what is happening, does it mean, that the entity appears?

sending love.

Lakshmi 

Aug 26

Hi Ilona,

The word "i "is definitely empty except that it is used for communication or referred to that particular body mind complex.

It is empty because things happen even when it is used or not.

"I" is an other thought and with a big commentary around it constantly.

No entity does "I" refer to. nothing appears or disappears with "I"

Whatever is there is there irrespective of "I’. Whatever has to happen will be happening.

Love,

Lakshmi

Ilona

Aug 26

Yes!

How does it feel to see this? Are you noticing anything different in every day experience?

Can you say, that YES, it clear, there is no separate entity I. If not, is there anything else that needs to be looked at?

Sending Love.

Lakshmi

Aug 26

Yes ilona, things are different in everyday experience.

especially the answers seems to be flowing in the moment a question arises for day to day incidents..

and the same thing is proven again and again that it is all a game of the mind...

As of now i don’t feel there is a separate I ...but sometimes  at times of hurt the "I" seems real till looking happens again..

Thanks so much, how could you make it all so simple.....i know there is noone to make it happen, IT HAPPENS....

Please help till the gate is crossed.....

Much Love,

Ilona

Aug 27

Hi Lakshmi,

Keep looking, what is behind the hurt when it arises, see how it passes when it's noticed. Mind is checking this in every situation.

I is never real, sometimes it's a habitual assumption that it comes back, but as you notice, when looked, it's never found.  After a while this looking drops, but don't wait for it, it may take long time, or not. 

The hurt is a reaction to a touch of painful spot. You may look a at it and thank it for showing up, it's an opportunity to release it. instead of no you can say yes to intense feelings and just feel them openly, rather than resisting.  Each reaction is an invitation to look. And feelings pass quickly if there is no grasping. Surrendering is what is left when resistance to what is ends. And when feelings arise, give them space, feel them.

Are there separate entities in other people? How do you see your closest ones? How about strangers on the street?

  

Much love. 

  

Lakshmi

Aug 28

Amazing! superbly told!!

Will answer the questions soon..

Thanks, Regards, Love,

Lakshmi

Sep 4

Hi Ilona,

yes, the hurt just passes when i start looking though it is taking time to look during those times...

things changed ilona and its just superb, is it so simple?

There is no "I” yes,!!!

The reactions are passing easily, feeling light .

no, there cannot be any separate entities in other people, just the same body mind complex....differently conditioned, so reacting differently...otherwise the machines are the same...

yes, my closest ones and he strangers are the same like what i described but with the close ones there is this body attachment and love, other feelings..

but it feels easy to understand everyone, closest ones and strangers ...because it’s all happening and there is noone to do anything.

Thanks,

Love,

Ilona

Sep 6

Sweet! Yes, there is no one here doing anything. All is one movement of life.

Are you ready for the final questions?

If not, what else we can look at?

Sending love. 

Lakshmi

Sep 9

Hi Ilona, want to look into few more aspects before the final one!!!

will keep writing ..

Thanks for all this

Love,

Ilona

Sep 9

Share with me, what are you noticing..

Love

........................................

Lakshmi

Sep 19

Hi Ilona,

Been looking! Just few thoughts i would like to share ...

The questions about the horrible things that happen around us in this world disturbs..... Like the rapes, murders,... these things hurt and makes it difficult to understand that things happen and deeds done but no doer!!!

Well, as i write thoughts come that yes this is it... but the doubting mind interferes .

but ilona, i can’t stop saying that this is an amazing drama unfolding in front of our eyes.

and you made it so simple...

please tell me what is it i need to do for that final step

What is all this? feeling responsible, sacrifice etc etc used so much in Indian context...

man made ???

good and bad? help and hurt? they vary acc to people, situations etc

These things  are confusing when looked at...

and yes, all this is the mind chattering...

and the actions are a result of the conditioning ....

all actions result of those thoughts on which there is no control

then the reactions to all these actions.. it looks a cycle.

Lakshmi

Sep 21

Hi Ilona,

I am ready for the final questions...

Ilona

Sep 21

Sorry for delay with answer.

I'm very happy to hear that you are ready for the last questions. If something is not clear, answers will let me see what.

Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.

Lakshmi

Sep 24

Hi Ilona,

firstly,Thank you for all this.

1. No there is no self, i, me anywhere. Life is going on according to how it is supposed to be. There are different body mind organisms with its own conditioning, programming, memory, just doing what has to be done all around. Other than this there is no separate I, Me or Self....yes there was" I "before i started looking for it, The "I" that was there was what i thought was the life force which made my body move and mind think....That consciousness is still there but there is no "I" now. That consciousness is not separate it is universal and is THERE......That’s it....

2. The Illusion of separate self is that I AM SEPARATE ENTITY AND I EXIST  AND AM THE DOER ETC....ya and may be it starts from the time our mind starts thinking, working even as a child.... It makes me feel that i am separate individual, I am responsible for my actions, to plan, to think, to expect, see good and bad, label,...

Now, I see it as just a THOUGHT, THE MIND PROJECTION, that’s all... it only exists as a thought. Can’t find it otherwise, neither in me nor others. Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting of body and mind working according to the circumstances and conditioning.

3. It feels very light, beautiful because there is no burden of any doership in me no 'I' even in others so there is noone doing anything to anyone,. The answers come so easily to the questions which rise in day today life.. the perception changed ....and can’t believe that it is so simple.

There are no serious complaints, no burden, no serious goals, no feeling hurt like before, no holding responsible anyone for the deeds .... though its not always but many times. Because every answer flows in to balance the emotion.... i am sorry i hope you can understand what i mean.

  

4. cant really pinpoint the last bit, because every step kept pushing, looking and looking at every step possible helped me, looking especially when i am hurt helped me to realize and understand better ...i am sorry that i am unable to pinpoint the last bit,

5. oh no!!!! i definitely cannot control ...of course i even cannot decide, intend, choose too because they all happen according to the circumstances, conditioning, etc which is just not in my control..

some of my experiences in life when i look at the past ..... like i always wanted to become a doctor and practice but yes i did become but not practicing like what i thought,,, sitting at home and taking care of kids and the other family members because i lost my dad and brother at a crucial stage in my life and life is just flowing with No ME, NO DECIDING, NO CHOOSING, NO CONTROL, though the mind seems to be doing this by saying' I EXIST"....which i realize now that this also is another "THOUGHT"

Many Incidents in life in the past and the present again and again show that life just happens......

The one quote that just that keep ringing is EVENTS HAPPEN, DEEDS ARE DONE BUT THERE IS NO DOER and no doer for me is no 'I' no SELF...

This incident of meeting you, writing to you, looking at life ....All this also is HAPPENING.....

Thanks and much love,

Ilona

Sep 25

Beautiful, thank you for answers, Lakshmi.

I would like you to take a look little bit closer at this- was there ever an I? And what is the I that was looking for I?

I can see that a shift has happened, just need to look a bit more. Awakening is a process and it keeps going..

"Everyone seems to be a programmed machine consisting of body and mind working according to the circumstances" - yes, you can say that, but zoom out a bit, look at totality of movement, including this body, is there a line between this machine and another machine?

Is it body that is experiencing and reacting? Is there a line between reaction and circumstances?

When you look at what is looking, what is there?

Much love!

Lakshmi

Sep 25

Hi Ilona,

"I" is another thought looking for "I"

it’s all the mind that’s working...thought by thought

All thoughts are coming as questions and answers too.

There was never an "I"

There is a separation in terms of bodies but otherwise the rest is all the same... the functioning is the same, the thoughts which come is anyways beyond control of any machine and when there is no "I" for me then there is no any other "I"

The experiences and reactions are happening according to the thoughts that come from somewhere on which there is no control and its the thought of "I" that is reacting because of the identification with body.

Yes, the circumstances are already there, beyond control and the reaction comes because of the 'ego'.....the thought "I", the identification.

there is noone who is looking, looking is happening.....

Thank you so much,

Love,

Lakshmi 

hmm!!

  

Ilona

Sep 25

Thank you for answers.

There is something subtle that I invite you to look at:

You say: it’s the thought of "I" that is reacting because of the identification with  body.

Say word I, loudly or quietly a few times. Is this thought reacting?

Can a thought identify with body? What is that identifies with the body? What is behind identification? Can you look closer here, is there an ego? Or just more thoughts?

What do you notice?

Sending love.

Lakshmi

Sep 26

Hi Ilona, No, the thought I isn't reacting. There is no

identification, There is noone at all. only more and more thoughts

that's all. There is NOONE...oh my god!! Yes, NOONE indeed.. Love, Lakshmi

Ilona

Sep 26 

That is it and all is functioning just fine..

Welcome home. And you know, it's just a beginning, a fresh start to new way of living.

I'm delighted for you.

I usually put these conversations on the blog, would it be ok with you? I can use your name or any other name you prefer. If other guides have questions that may ask, if not I will invite you to join LU Facebook groups.

Sending love!

Lakshmi

Sep 27

to me

Thank you Ilona,

The journey has been beautiful....

You could do whatever you feel like with the conversations and my name....

Much Love,

Ilona

Sep 28

Hi Lakshmi,

Thank you so much. It will take me a few days to publish this. Will let you know when I do that.

Have a wonderful day!

Much love.

If This Hopeless Seeker Got It, Then You Sure Have A Chance

This was a long conversation and quite intense. Hernan was a long time seeker and it wasn't easy for him. But the shell got cracked and seeking dropped and I am delighted for him. 

Hernan

Mar 24

Hi, Ilona, I am Hernan, the client otter was talking about.

Thank you for having me.

Was the idea to chat or we reply when it suits us best?

Regards.

Ilona

Mar 24

Hi Hernan.

Thanks for email.

For me it works the best when you answer when ready after proper investigation into a question.

Can you write a bit about your journey and where do you feel you are now. We'll take it from there.

Kind regards.

Hernan

Mar 24

Where I feel I am... After so long following a path I feel I have so little true understanding. I could play the veteran, the teacher. All this time in India a considerable portion of it in loose retreat with some tight ones, knowing Tibetan, having received hundreds of empowerments and transmissions and teachings. From many of the greatest living Lamas. Having relied on one who is a very pure example, who really looks like liberated... But, to be honest... I would be just parroting what I studied. I see some changes, yes. But so small. Some humbleness, some qualities...

Then I have been reading and listening on westerners who have gone through some awakening. Many of which seem very genuine. So, in time I came to question my path. On the one hand, Vajrayana seems wow, the fast path to awakening and so many have had success in the past. It is tested by centuries. Yeah, yet, I have had so little success. I don’t have any trouble to say I'm an asshole. Still I would have a hard time to say who has.

And these westerners, yes, we have the problem of huge pride and premature claims. High ones at that. But at the same time, that irreverence those same defects produce a plethora of courageous, smart, often brilliant ideas and practices. And people from the past have their lot of defects. Following the herd, lack of inventive, narrow mindedness, etc.

So I can't help asking me: what if all that huge complication, loooong paths, rigid recipes, etc. were not really necessary? These W. may be fooling themselves thinking they have reached the goal, but who cares? If deluded, one will bang the head. And learn. From that. And one of the things that convinces me most is that many of those W have believed they were done, only to discover there is still more depth. Even more inspiring: that that is valid is realization and at the same time it will be seen in the light of further experience, as provisory, somehow partial. On and on. Who could possibly find fault at that? Apart from someone close minded.

And, as if that were not enough, there’s a great component of love in many of them. And yet more, it’s not that they are helpless: many have been transmitting the realization to others. And they themselves in turn, to others.

What could one think of greater value than that?

So, here I am, wanting to participate in this silent revolution. I had become quite convinced so many conditions are needed and such a steady foundation... that I thought I could only expect minimum results in this life. It's 20 years........

Regards.

Ilona

Mar 25

Hi Hernan.

I see your cup is very full.

In order to see (we are not talking about understanding here) you are gonna need to empty your cup.

This has nothing to do with states, nor with philosophy, analysis, comparison between west and east, but plain experience that is right here right now.

So the first task is to look at expectations.

Let me tell you this- seeing no self is a first tiny step of awakened journey.  Not the end, not the enlightenment that sages talk about, but the opening to it, just a beginning of exploration.

So now please make a list of what you expect this first step is about,

What do you think will happen?

How do you think it will happen?

Please report not from what you read, but from what YOU observe in you.

Without this step we cannot go anywhere.

Write all that wants to come out.

Sending love.

Hernan

Mar 26

Hi Ilona.

I know well this is not about anything else than looking directly within. I went into that because you told me to write on it to know where I am standing.

Simply stated, if looking within and seeing there's no I, actually, etc. then I would be done. In this first step, at least. In that case I don't see much point in going through it again.

It is not intellectual, yet it is a superficial seeing. Otherwise I could not continue to grasp the way I do. Either pull in or push away. If look within and find no I and yet a moment later I get annoyed at something barring me from getting what I want... Then it just shows I didn't really got it. Yes, it seems to be I have matured somehow. But such a modest change in so long...And I am 46.

So, I expect change. In perception. Which has to bring about change in behavior. As in anything. Say, psychotherapy.

Some weeks earlier I replied in this way:

 1) I would say it would have some similarity with this: once I was in retreat and I saw a fly on a stone. I felt empathy for her as never before. Shame for all the times I have lost my temper with insects, regret. And a determination not to behave like that again. Unlike many other instances I kind of kept it. But not out of sheer biting my lips. That was some degree of love which I probably didn't feel later, yet without effort I tend to be patient with them.

 2) Being quite amazed on how could I have missed something so obvious. And on its simplicity. But at the same time a blatant difference with what it was before. Even if hard to pinpoint.

3) Whatever the degree of the liberation, a corresponding weakening of reactivity, desires, aversion, criticism, etc

4) And that much acceptance of others and situations. And wanting- and being able- to use anything to learn.

5) Which are the roots of love. Towards me as well as others.

6) That much of ability to know mind, learn it's patterns and use that knowledge.

7) That much of qualities developing, starting with compassion, devotion, renunciation, awareness... And yet, sure enough, a bumpy journey. Starting with believing it is much deeper than actually is, which life will take care too show me soon. But, at the same time, discovering strength within and without to go on even if stumbling every now and then.

Regards,

H

Ilona

Mar 26

I know well this is not about anything else than looking directly within. I went into that because you told me to write on it to know where I am standing.

Yes, that's cool.

Simply stated, if looking within and seeing there's no I, actually, etc. then I would be done.

If there is no I, then what is that gets 'done'?

There is no done. It's just another carrot to chase. 

There is no within either.

In this first step, at least. In that case I don't see much point in going through it again.

Well, it's for me to decide, where is the point and where isn't.  Expectations is the biggest block to seeing. The other one is fear. 

If look within and find no I and yet a moment later I get annoyed at something barring me from getting what I want...

What is the first I? What is the I that gets annoyed and wants something else? Does it pop in when you are not looking? How does that work?

Then it just shows I didn't really got it.

Yes.  And it's ok, if you are ready to look with fresh eyes, I will show you where to look. 

Yes, it seems to be I have matured somehow. But such a modest change in so long...And I am 46.

So, I expect change. In perception.

What do you expect that change in perception is? Does that change what is? Does it change the character? Does it change what is going on?

If you put pink glasses on, everything looks pink, this is the change in perception. It's still all as it was, just pink. It does not make you lovable and people don't treat you differently, it's just seeing all in pink. See what I'm saying?  Same with seeing here, the glasses of belief that there is a separate self within are taken off.

Which has to bring about change in behavior.

Hmm, it may or may not. At least not right from the beginning.

1)Iwould say it would have some similarity with this: once I was in retreat and I saw a fly on a stone. I felt an empathy for her as never before. Shame for all the times I have lost my temper with insects, regret. And a determination not to behave like that again. Unlike many other instances I kind of kept it. But not out of sheer biting my lips. That was some degree of love which I probably didn't feel later, yet without effort I tend to be patient with them.

This what you are describing is a state. No state is permanent.  So don't expect a state to stick.

2) Being quite amazed on how could I have missed something so obvious. And on it's simplicity. But at the same time a blatant difference with what it was before. Even if hard to pinpoint.

Some get amazed, others say what? Is that it? And get annoyed with this simplicity, not wanting to recognize it.

3) Whatever the degree of the liberation, a corresponding weakening of reactivity, desires, aversion, criticism, etc

The patterns are seen and start getting released. Seeing no self is a beginning of relaxation, yes.

4) And that much acceptance of others and situations. And wanting- and being able- to use anything to learn.

There are no others. That becomes clear, when it's s seen that there is no self entity in you. 

Wanting has nothing to do with seeing, neither does learning.

5) Which are the roots of love. Towards me as well as others.

It may or may not come with heart opening.  As I said before, this does not change the character. 

6) That much of ability to know mind, learn it's patterns and use that knowledge.

Nothing to do with knowledge either,  mind does what it does, it's not yours to control it. 

7) That much of qualities developing, starting with compassion, devotion, renunciation, awareness... And yet, sure enough, a bumpy journey. Starting with believing it is much deeper than actually is, which life will take care too show me soon. But, at the same time, discovering strength within and without to go on even if stumbling every now and then.

Yeah, life does not stop, things happen, up and down is not going to cease.

There is freedom to experience not from experience.  Freedom to enjoy the bumps as well as smooth ride. As it's seen that you are not the driver.... You are not in control of what happens, not a manager of your inside, there is no inside and outside. Just a ride, that rides itself. 

Now I invite you to look through all these expectations and tell me where did reaction arise, what was most resisted or unacceptable to you at this point.  

And I must ask you, do not copy paste any thing from what you said before. What I need to hear is how you feel right now, what you seeing this moment, not some time ago.  Cool?

Looking forward to hear from you. 

Much love. 

Hernan

Mar 28

What is the first I? What is the I that gets annoyed and wants something else? Does it pop in when you are not looking? How does that work?

The one I don't find is an idea, a patchwork of stuff we identify with. The other is...habitual patterns, the actual 'thing' we refer to when we have that idea. Kinda the same..

What do you expect that change in perception is? Does that change what is? Does it change the character? Does it change what is going on?

A different angle, naturally seeing what before was just reminding oneself it is so (teachings that sound true). No it doesn't. One's character? Well, sure. Take just one aspect: if we start to really see the fiction of a separate I, then it seems hard to imagine to be selfish. Yeah, don't mean all in a sudden, but a day to day of habits wearing themselves out. I guess it takes some paying attention and feeling deeply their how mean, non adaptive, useless, they are. More, how much unnecessary trouble they bring. It takes distraction to fall into habits.

If you put pink glasses on, everything looks pink, this is the change in perception. It's still all as it was, just pink. It does not make you lovable and people don't treat you differently, it's just seeing all in pink. See what I'm saying?   Same with seeing here, the glasses of belief that there is a separate self within are taken off.

Examples capture some aspect of what we want to convey. I don't think you believe  it is so inconsequential...

Which has to bring about change in behavior.

Hmm, it may or may not. At least not right from the beginning.

Ok, there is the answer. Agree.

Some get amazed, others say what? Is that it? And get annoyed with this simplicity, not wanting to recognise it.

I see.

The patterns are seen and start getting released. Seeing no self is a beginning of relaxation, yes.

Wanting has nothing to do with seeing, neither does learning.

I meant the disposition, openness that account for learning from what we like and what we don;t.

It may or may not come with heart opening.  As I said before, this does not change the character. 

I see. Are those just stages? Or for some it will be without heart opening and others the opposite, etc, etc.?

Nothing to do with knowledge either,  mind does what it does, it's not yours to control it. 

Ain't it just words? I mean what you realize. You observe, you learn, you don't get caught in mind's games you take things lightly. or you know, you realized it's nature.

Ilona

Mar 29

Are you the character?

Do you own the character? Is there a person named Herman? Or just a story about person named Hernan?

If I asked you to touch Hernan with a finger now, where does the finger land?

So all these patterns of behaviour and thought, do they belong to you? Are you the centre to where these patterns stick? Are you in control of habits or they seem to carry on regardless of what you want?

Examine this closely.

And no, seeing the character does not change the character.  Can you change the character named batman? How is story about Hernan different from story about batman? Where are they both found?

Sending love. 

Hernan

Mar 29

Are you the character?

Do you own the character? Is there a person named Herman? Or just a story about person named Hernan?

You in the superficial sense, sure. Not at all in the deep one, as basis of mental activity. 'Own'sounds weird. Not really. Yes, just that.

If I asked you to touch Hernan with a finger now, where does the finger land?

If anywhere, on the surface of the body. But immediately looks funny.

So all these patterns of behaviour and thought, do they belong to you? Are you the centre to where these patterns stick? Are you in control of habits or they seem to carry on regardless of what you want?

Examine this closely.

Not in the sense of being their master. No. Yes they do seem.

And no, seeing the character does not change the character.  Can you change the character named batman? How is story about Hernan different from story about batman?

I seem to have trouble with this one. If I am nasty, will others have to bear with me forever?

One is created for entertainment, identification, etc. of others and the other... it looks as if we take to the conclusion that either we create one or we'll be always out. And that seems dreadful.

Where are they both found?

In thought, in ideas.

Love.

Ilona

Mar 31

Hi Hernan,

You say:

I seem to have trouble with this one. If I am nasty, will others have to bear with me forever?

One is created for entertainment, identification, etc. of others and the other... it looks as if we take to the conclusion that either we create one or we'll be always out. And that seems dreadful.

There is no "you". There is a character that is playing it's role- nasty, good, loved, horrible are all nothing but judgements.

Are you the actor of the role? If so, can you choose to be goodie or baddie? Are you director? Orchestrator? Watcher? Are you the manager of what happens to Hernan?

What do you see when you look at Hernan? What drives this character?

How does Hernan look dependent on the mood? How does he look from the points of view of mother, partner, best friend, stranger? Do their stories match?

Is Hernan more then an image? Is that image you?

What is that makes you feel dreadful? Does this image need to be maintained and protected?

Yeah, many questions for you.  Have a good look and answer when ready.

Much love and happy Easter!

:)

Hernan

Apr 2

Hi Ilona.

Sorry for the delays. But I will be quite busy till around 20-25th of this month.

No matter what I would reply, the truth is I am quite convinced I am, I can choose, I am the director, watcher, manager of what happens to me. I'd say much more that the average. Very ingrained conviction we could make huge changes in just about anything...if we just really wanted, had the courage it takes,etc. Even though I am acutely aware of the weight of conditioning.

What do you see when you look at Hernan? What drives this character?

A cluster of habits, patterns, caught up in stories that seem so important in the moment and so meaningless later. Unsatisfaction with this condition and conviction I could live so much more complete and challenging life.

How does Hernan look dependent on the mood? How does he look from the points of view of mother, partner, best friend, stranger? Do their stories match?

Quite a bit. Very different in every case. In some aspects.

Is Hernan more then an image? Is that image you?

a generalization , an immense oversimplification. No.

What is that makes you feel dreadful? Does this image need to be maintained and protected?

Did I say I feel so? Or just asking? If the latter, aggression, violence, harm. No, not at all.

Ilona

Apr 3

Hi Hernan.

No matter what I would reply, the truth is I am quite convinced I am, I can choose, I am the director, watcher, manager of what happens to me. I'd say much more that the average. Very ingrained conviction we could make huge changes in just about anything...if we just really wanted, had the courage it takes,etc. Even though I am acutely aware of the weight of conditioning.

This is where burning desire to see what is true comes in.

If you like to keep your conditioning and believe in fairy tale stories about your infinite power, please keep them. It is not awakening that you want. You want to hold on to your beliefs so hold on, because in waking up they all burn. All. If you are not ready for that, then perhaps you are not ripe. And that is ok too. There is no right or wrong in how you see life, you see it as you see. It takes courage and huge amount of honesty to break free and question all the precious beliefs. Unless you are absolutely ready, nothing we talk can get you see that all this I am manager/director/watcher is a lie that you keep telling yourself. You actually need to look.  No looking- no seeing.  And how would you look, if you are so convinced that you know how it is.

Have a good think about what I say and get back to me if you are ready to face what is true and what is illusions.

Sending love. 

Hernan

Apr 4

Hi Ilona.

If I were eager to hold on to my beliefs I wouldn´t be trying this. And definitely not for months.

I am saying this is the case with me, not that I am happy, proud, adamant,etc. about it.

I am open to question that lie, but it seems so convincing to me at this stage.

I am not so convinced it is like this in the sense that I have made my mind already.

Love,

H

Ilona

Apr 7

Illusion is meant to be convincing :)

Maybe you could tell me, what is it you are looking for and how much you want to find it?

How will you recognise it when you do find it?

Hernan

Apr 9

Hi Ilona.

Yes, sure.

Living a fuller life. Finding the inner guidance, Living from the heart. Seeing anything as an opportunity to learn, grow. Other rather than self-centered. Accepting everything as it is rather than my wishes. Confidence, in me, in the true nature of things,etc. You could choose any single one or many others I could mention.

In a sense  I really want it. In a sense my actions contradict that.

To the degree I manifest them I wil not miss them. Some will need more interaction with others to show themselves clearly.

Love.

Ilona

Apr 9

What is in the way for all that now?

See, there is no self already, there never was you as a separate entity, it's all life living itself. What is it that does not let accepting everything as it is including those wishes as they are?

Sounds like you are looking for improvement of experience.  But the key is to see that there is no experiencer, neither it is needed for experiences to be happening.

All experiencing is happening right this moment.  The rest- past / future/ thoughts about what has to be different- are in imagination.  Living from the heart is just surrendering to what is, moment to moment. Allowing and welcoming all that shows up, whatever shows up.

Living from the head is believing in stories and trying fix what is not broken.

Maybe, there is nothing wrong already?

Is there anything missing now?

Sending love.

Hernan

Apr 11

Hi Ilona.

When i read your email i had just listened this-  Admitting Who You Really Are - Jeff Foster - YouTube  You seem to be saying exactly the same.

I´m feeling quite silly. Childish.

Love

Ilona

Apr 11

Is there a you that can or need to wake up?

:)

Hernan

Apr 13

:-)

No.

Ilona

Hahahaa,  sure?

Can you say, that shift has happened? Is anything different, all same? Can you describe what are you noticing lately?

Sending love.

Hernan

Apr 14

I don't think so. Quite so. I am getting convinced, I am having trouble to dismiss so many pointers saying that in fact it is so simple. And it just sounds so true. And that the seeking attitude itself pushes away and solidifies a goal. And a confidence that sooner or later I will see the absurd of it all.

Love,

H

Ilona

Apr 15

The seeking is a game of golden carrot, of hope for happy tomorrow, it takes a lot of energy to sustain the illusion that there is something to find out or stuff to do in order to simply be. 

It is like looking for slippers while wearing slippers. Where are they??? And duh, they are on feet!

That which you are looking for does not exist.  And it's ok to relax and stop pretending that it does. :)

Yes, sooner or later all becomes clear.  When you focus on the obvious, rather then on imaginary.  When you are ready to give up the idea of golden carrot that is driving the search.

Much love. 

Hernan

Apr 17

It looks like a kind of neurosis. The thing you want is right there and yet to take all sorts of crooked ways to get it. Because you don't even see it in front, instead, you see all kinds of things in between.

On the other hand, there's a suspicion of quick and easy paths or fixes. Partly because all too often we westerners tend to be very arrogant and believe we know better and overestimate originality. And also because one cannot help but thinking, ´come on, all these thousands of years people have meditated,etc.,their asses and you are going to tell me it takes just that. Give me a break..¨And of course, our culture also is very much into effort if one wants success in any endeavor.

Just some thoughts, since there were no questions.

Only now I got my passport back, so it seems i'm actually leaving tomorrow. So don't mind if I don´t reply till, say, Wednesday.

Love.

Ilona

Apr 17

It literally takes 3 seconds of one focused look.

And this is so simple, that it can be dismissed as too simple. Never less, it's right here, always visible and not even hidden.

So one takes years to look at what is already obvious.

There is nothing to find out. No I that can find it.

Can a thought get enlightened?

Sending love.

Hernan

May 29

Hi, Ilona

Sorry for such a delay. I thought I would finish some things I had to do in 5 days and took 20. By the end of that period I had a working connection but I just answered the urgent mails. Now again I have a connection after 10 days without one.

On the other hand, I wanted to attend a Gyan Viddhi (sort of an iniciation) and see the result without being unsure of what caused it.

Very particular place, this one. I've never been in a place where just about everyone seems to be happy  and there's hardly any problem. They report that and that is what I see. No criticism so little kleshas... And I have been here for 20 days already.

And that is what my experience has mirrored, even before the initiation itself

Then , one day, someone I didn't know pick me up and took me to his teacher. An exact complement. Whereas here there's a lot of the relative level and not much of the absolute, that teacher is quite the opposite.

In short, I feel the former is being very helpful and the latter giving me quite a bit of confidence.

Anyway, I might ask you later on if you are available.

Thank you very much.

Love.

Ilona

May 29

Wow, the place sounds amazing! Where is that happy place? 

Sure, email me any time, I'm here if you want to talk.

Much love.

Hernan

Jun 13

Hi.

Simandhar City, in the outskirts of Ahmedabad, GJ, India.

I don´t know if I would have come here had I not read Jan Esmann´s experience, in his site. And I got there through batgap, just as LU.

I saw there's now an interview of Deepakbhai, the head of this group.

As with everything it takes a little to familiarize oneself with the logic of the path and then start to see the depth, which only now I´m starting to see. I think it is worth. But that comes only after one gains confidence in that it works. Through experience best, but also listening other´s.

In their website there are several, although most are too brief.

Thanks for being available. And for all you are doing.

Love.

Ilona

Jun 14

Sounds that your journey is getting more juicy! Enjoy your stay there. :)

All you need is trust, that everything is happening as it should and dive in in life to experience it fully. 

If you would like to talk some more, I'm always here.

Lots of love. 

Hernan

Aug 28

Hi Ilona.

How are you?

Would you have time to resume?

I wrote a post on Fb for O.Rivers. You might want to read it.

Love.

Wait, I copied almost all. With poor connections, I have lost posts on Fb, so just in case...

Things on LU. Then I told me, ""how are you going to give your opinion without refreshing your memory and reading more?" After reading I feel there's something very valuable in it. I would like to know more about the follow up of people who crossed. But I guess that is reserved for them. I which case, why not try again? Which , of course will give me the much more important opportunity of seeing it's worth by myself. I just hope everyone in LU never stop going deeper and wider. Or let it go deeper and expand, I should say.

And reading made me ponder and watch and question quite a bit. These have been very important months for me.When I wrote I was at my lowest, in terms of faith and confidence. On the path. On myself. I am now in retreat and for weeks, so much suff has come out. How can one fool oneself so much... On top of the basic make believe of an I, a whole personality and life story of deception. Deceiving others to fool oneself. Very smart. And to top it all, pride for that image...Awesome! We all know it. Yeah. We could say the same the same of the false identification with an I- at least for people interested on these things. As much as we know we'll die. But behave as if we had complete assurance of living for 500 years.

And then, seeing the hypocrisy, which, at it's peak, turns into blaming the path i'm following, and even my main guide- who is the purest and wisest being I know-, for my failure in achieving anything, when I have stubbornly done everything I could to pay no heed and stumble at every step, groping closed eyed... Amaaaaaaaaazing! In fact, he has been telling me to investigate and watch mind, I, etc.,since quite early on. And I did it for some years, albeit I slipped into too little actual watching. And the I dropped it.

Only now, writing this, it clicked on me that this could be a stepstone for seeing through the other one. The biggest lie. I had not even seen how close related they are. SO I will now write Ilona. See if we can resume, or maybe better, start from square one. We didn't do too many days and I had to leave.

Wish you all the best. And thanks.

Ilona

Aug 29

Hi Hernan,

Thank you for email. Yes, let's carry on and finish this once and for all. Then you can explore what next and share your journey with people on LU.

Lies, yes, burn them all. They can not stand the truth and writing things down is the best and most focused way to set lies on fire.  Either you write to me, to otter or to yourself, don't leave a stone unturned. All the accumulated bullshit has got to be dropped. Either now or later. Emptying the cup is a stage in this journey.

Stories are just stories, fiction, patterns of thoughts repeated. Stories are not the only thing that goes on in experience. What your experience consists of, right now?

Good to see you back, man. 

Much love.

Hernan

Aug 31

Hi, Ilona.

Yes, let's finish him off. ;-)

On the last days I have been checking quite a bit. Specially regarding the issue I have most trouble with, when debunking I. It appears quite true that given a mind and a capacity to remember and convictions, a scale of values, priorities, desires, aversions, etc.,etc.- there's no need to posit the existence of any headquarters. Neither of these, in turn, need one.

I mean: it looks as 'I' decide to look at mind. Yet, I remembered to do so, because when I, eg., read that, I appreciated it as important; I am dissatisfied and it seemed worth to give it a shot. I don't need to go anywhere; it doesn't take much time. Etc, etc. None of this takes a central management, necessarily. An order of priorities seem to attach a feeling to each. Much as a computer orders files by the 1st.letter of it's name, size, type. So, then everything is precooked and when prompted for a decision related to that, it just needs to be checked against the situation. Is it fit enough? All  of which can come about through trial and error, acceptance/reward or not from others, etc, in all its complexity which we go on assimilating. You need sentience, wanting happiness and avoiding suffering in the basement.

Then, before yesterday I spent a couple of hours, very focused, specially inspired by a post on LU, on ownership. Yes, it does feels very absurd.

My tingling on the arm? My memory of that holiday?

Long ago I saw there are 2 options: calling I that presence, which is absurd, since there is nothing personal, nothing Hernan, particularly, in it. Or the personality, which we don't believe really to be. Just as with the body, we are identified with it regarding what is material. It is only one step inward. Now what I checked is how funny it is to identify oneself with the personality... then, what? my trait of being usually late, together any of the millions that compose my personality, listens the chirping of the birds...?!

Just looking there's just....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

The moment a thought comes there's no more looking. Without thoughts, "we run out of words".

Love.

Ilona

Sep 3

Hi Hernan.

Can you say YES, it is clear, that I, Hernan, separate entity does not exist in reality?

If not, what else is there that needs to be looked at?

Is there a thinker, a perceiver, a center to experience?

Is life happening to you or as you?

Was there ever a separate self?

Sending love.

Hernan 

Sep 3

Yes, I think so.

No, and yet that is how it feels.

It feels as if it were happening to me.

It feels as if there is an I still.

No surprise for me at all.

Love.

Ilona

Sep 3

Interesting. You say that it feels like. How would you know the difference?

It feels as if there is an I still.

Can you look closer here and tell me, if there is no I, how can it feel like there is an I?

Is being (verb) I?

Or I is a thought?

Is a thought I doing being?

Hernan

Sep 4

I guess, otherwise I should have felt some difference at some point.

Also, I would expect a lack of reference as when I rest mind without object.

A bit as we know fully well the day is caused by the Earth turning around the Sun and yet... I feels so much the opposite.

No, it is a bundle of thoughts. 

No. No way.

Love.

Ilona

Sep 6

If there is no self and never was, then why would there be any difference?

If you expect that thoughts should stop arising, then it's just magical thinking. Thoughts arise and will keep to arise, it's not that you are the one thinking them.

Same with feelings.

There is no Big Bang when a belief drops. More likely it's a little puff...

Is the seeking still there?

Sending love.

Hernan 

Sep 7

If you were believing yourself to be an excellent guy and now you realize it was just fooling yourself, it moves you even though that was happening all along.

If you expect that thoughts should stop arising, then it's just magical thinking. Thoughts arise and will keep to arise, it's not that you are the one thinking them.

Same with feelings.

Not at all. Now, getting sucked by them, as a child in front of the TV...

There is no Big Bang when a belief drops. More likely it's a little puff...

I'm sure not for most folks. And surely not for me. But at least that "Aha..." with the accompanying sense of having catch the'joke'...

Is the seeking still there?

Yes.

Ilona

Sep 8

So what is it you are seeking? Aha moment? A cosmic laugh?

This, right now, this moment is all there is. Is anything missing? Is here anything that should be different?

What is not complete?

What is not just happening by itself?

Are you the general manager of life? If so, it's ok to resign.

:)

Sending love.

Hernan 

Sep 10

I don't know if cosmic, but that I had my share of laughter...

On Sunday morning I began to ask myself"Isn't it absurd to have an aim? And way up there. Am I not asking for suffering?  Am I not creating a problem? What if I... just dump it? Wouldn't I have done with it in one stroke?" Such a relief to lay down the burden. Laughter. From the depth. How could I made up an such an issue? Like getting into the market and a guy is shouting,"Sale, sale! Suffering for just 19.90 bucks" And go buy it. And  returning for more! Several times a day!

But, hold on. What about the other side of the equation? i repeated it many times. "I want to attain awakening". I... I... What am I talking about? By far most of the day I am carried wherever the wind of thought blows. Even when I want to investigate within, I am carried away every now and then.Great! So I am thinking in the latter. In the former I called it 'distracted'. What difference is there at the level of the thoughts themselves? That looks creepily similar to how I identify myself with some aspects and feel distant from others. They happen to be those that I consider worthy, etc. and shameful, etc, respectively. What else than sheer make belief.

But even if, true, I can keep coming to a point I am interested in, every single thing I can come up with is tainted with my experience. Make a little change in my early years and my present would be hugely different from what it is. I forget to take something in account and the conclusions of my investigation will vary greatly. And experience... that itself is conditioning. Certainty for a couple of times something happen? Come on. Everything has conditioned me. From the most obvious- such as parents, emotions, etc.- to the least- say, weather. Everything dependent on circumstances. Which, in turn, are constantly changing. And, as if that were not enough, so easily influenced.By what others say, emotions, etc. I? What do you f&&^*^%&$ mean? Everything occurs in patterns. Or we find always patterns in everything, should I say. Of course my thinking will  be no exception.

So where, is there any place for the idea I have of an I? The guy calling the shots? It rather looks as the stereotype of the husband who in the street plays as the one wearing the trousers and at home his wife knows well what she must say to make him do what she wants.

I wonder what triggered this. As with health, there's always several factors and it is not obvious which could have been the effective one.

On Friday and Saturday I had an interview with my main teacher, first in 16 months. On the 2nd. one he emphasized the need of me drawing a line. That I have to come to decide that it is enough. With what I know, what I received, studied, etc. And not continue to try things. I think it must have had some influence. But definitely the aspect this took is what I had been doing since last week when I started to read LU again. And then your questions. The one that stuck was, "Is seeking still going on". Yes. Yes, that kept nagging. Though I have to say maybe a big part was my ego waiting for the slash from you!

And surely, the process of seeing all the stories I believed of myself and my hypocrisy and deceit, has had a big part too.

How enlivening to feel .......free. Every time I think it joy and laughter pop up. How we lock ourselves... willingly! Such a mastodont of believes. We're constantly told we shouldn't have hopes and yet that is what we feed from. And you can always explain away the failure. Not enough retreat, and if I had not get it even then... you could always blame it on obstacles... And as a last recourse the scapegoat can be your intention.

Yesterday and today I caught me thinking: "May this time really..." And I laughed. "Boy, this is not some state, something you need sustain, keep, hold. No ratified experience either. It's just not buying that bullshit any more. It is just seeing what is. Now, if you start to expect you will no more fall prey to emotions, and so on, that is your problem. Or you buying a problem. Just no more stratosphere-high lofty aim. Been fine with anything and not wanting some other special thing. How could there be fall from that?

Surely this side, the I, will take much more confrontation. Bot conviction plays a huge role in this. And my certainty on living no stone unturned in debunking 'I', in that as a matter of fact that will happen, has grown enormously.

Thank you Ilona.

There's some other things from the interviews. Tell you on the next one.

Love.

Ilona

Sep 10

Hmm, I can hear that shell cracking! Yumm!

Yes, it is a wake up call- stop believing in bullshit and seeing things as they are. No more trying to escape this by thinking about next moment, a goal, aim, some imagined scenario that will make one compete.  Completeness is always here waiting to be noticed if you have eyes for it. And believing is a veil, that somehow takes the magic out of the moment and turns it around into lack.

Seeking is happening as an escape mechanism. In a way it is trying to find home, from which one never left. All it takes is noticing- ha, home was here all along.  It's like looking for keys and finding them in your hand.  No step journey, hahaha..

Soo, tell me more, what else do you notice, is anything separate? Is there an I in this bag of skin? :)

Was there ever?

Much love.

Hernan

Sep 16 

Sorry for the delay. I had no subscription for a few days.

Absolutely.

No, everything is at the very same level. Just a habit of considering I apart.

And there is no difference between those moments in which I feel 'here', and the previous which I call, "being distracted". In terms of the pattern.

No, can't find any.

Love.

Ilona

Sep 17 

Can you write more, what is happening and what do you mean here. Sorry, but I can't get what you are saying in your email.

Love.

Hernan

Sep 18 

Sorry, let me try again.

Same level in that no special status for any part. An I. We may see it as so important, so much of the other stuff refers to it and it is so recurrent , that it may seem otherwise, but they are mere thoughts.

When we are dozing imagination begins to loose contact with our concerns, etc. And the same goes for our getting distracted. Just a matter of degree. We dismiss the latter, we say, "I got carried away...". We don't have much trouble in not positing an I there. Yet, there's not much of a difference with feeling connected, 'here'. Say taking a decision. One of the tougher ones, since we particularly feel being an I. We do, also, get distracted there, every now and then. But the main point is: there is no difference i the quality, so to say. Just the content. For someone with very strong renunciation, those'concerns' will seem as meaningless as distraction. Even s dreams. Dreams are to dozing as dozing is for being distracted. And the next would be feeling 'here'. And the next? No more narrative, the senses and thoughts. Still there there is a whole bunch of overlays of object-background, space, time, etc., in a particular hierarchy. So the next one should be being just as someone having a lucid dream. Not within my experience, but many of surely notice how much less solid and rigid everything is when we are centered, well. And , on the contrary, how stiff it a turns when we grasp.

My point is: no quality, but degree differences. More importantly, judging reality through the lens of our concerns is laughable. For they are the outcome of deluded mind.

Love.

Ilona

Sep 19

So what are you saying, Hernan? Is there an I, the separate entity, the doer, thinker, manager, or not? Was it ever?

Hernan 

Sep 20

When looking in a state of calm, it is much more obvious one finds nothing. When in a state of movement, during distraction, it is quite tough to come up with an I. I was having a little trouble with when I feel I am here, specially as in deciding.

Now I had to decide something so then I did a rehearsal, step by step.

Thought............&%$/&/.............&(//&$&#..............&$/&(/)(/........ One after the other. Any other stuff? Well, no. I guess that is what you want to zero in. And why we were a bit of of sync. A thought of an option, of "better now so I...", "wait, if I leave it for Monday...", etc, etc. So what? And some, most or all- not sure yet-, referring back to an assumed I, fine. Now, is there anything else? Other than the sequence of thought? No. They look just the same as any other thought.

Love.

H

...

Ilona

Sep 21

Would you say you are ready for the final questions? If not, what is not clear yet?

:)

Sending love

Hernan

Sep 21 

I think so. A part of me would say, "but...", yet it is the same thing I read in other people you have guided: "just that...?", kinda thing.

Yep, go ahead.

Love

...

Ilona

Sep 21

Lets see. Usually people say Yes without but...

Here are the questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.

...

Hernan 

Sep 22 

Yes, you know what I mean. "Couldn't be just that, could it?". I read others have that kind of attitude.

1.Nope. None . Never.

2.Unquestioned belief. That there is a headquarter. An introjection of what we experience in early days. Parents, etc., treat themselves and us as separate entities. We cannot identify with the body completely. So there's a smeared identification with personality. If we ever question that, then it poses several contradictions. We think we can solve them with a witness. If that is called into question, the last resource would be the presence, being, aliveness. But, of course, it doesn't have the characteristics we invest that I with. Open one box...just to find another box...just to find another box...Everything kept in place by that placid, cozy, convenient, assumption-based ignorance.

And of course there is the huge influence of language.

I am coming back to, "but..." My part of the deal is to look and be clear, ain't it?

What do I feel? Lightness. Warmth. A smile from within. It was coming up when thinking,"do you realize there's no more to seek?" A while ago, I noticed it when ,"no I to take decisions......". Courage. Several -for me- long periods of resting mind observing, or rather, being (and not a trace of an I showing up). Not being upset for the opposite, periods of relentless thoughts, or rather, being thrust into them. Confidence in being able to discover, see by myself, try and come up with approaches which seem good tools. Enjoying the investigation, as opposed to the usual thing for me- this is important so I SHOULD do it, with all the weight of that attitude. And thereby spending a lot of time in it. Not upset for not awakening on time, for instance- a general relaxing the struggle. Also, though it is too early, a sense that all the ways structure and plans of life, now... No need to be particularly here. I'm OK wherever it may be. Not tied.

I had not think on the topic. Quite a number of changes... So, why "but..."? Well, for one, I didn't think on the changes. Then, also, I am now in retreat. I only had to go down once, since we started. And nothing challenged my ego, then. And on a couple of instances, on the phone and net, I could see how alive and kicking are ego reactions.

Now, a while ago, I was pondering on 5). The tough one for me. Thoughts came of today coming to know I may be in trouble in terms of visa, and having to decide how to deal with it and where to go in a few weeks. "Well, I need to solve that, don't I ? Sure I prefer to say,'couldn't care less', ignore it. And then get into trouble and regret it." Only then kicked in the thought of,"nobody is saying anything about decisions, it is just regarding an unwarranted 'I' who calls the shots. Some thing else than the thoughts themselves." Such a strong habit. I guess for quite some time after going through the gate this is the, or one of the main jobs.

And , as for the previous paragraph, correct me if I'm wrong, you are not saying people, "you are done", but rather, "you are good to go". And undeniably, it is not a bad start...

That much for 3) and 5).

4) From all the circumstances , and they were many , when I laughed, it was seeing how ludicrous it is t have been hoisting a goal far beyond my reach. And how incredible simple was the solution: dropping it. From there to the other side of the equation: 'I'. How our experience is so much at variance with the ideas of what 'I's supposed to be.

But I believe meeting my teacher the previous 2 days set the stage, somehow. For the disillusion. There were also there some layers of projection that crumbled down.

Love.

H

Now I see maybe 2) is not complete. I´ll complete it tomorrow.

...

Hernan 

Sep 23

How does it work...? As an overzealous boss who thinks he knows how to do things well and doesn't trust others because of the errors they might commit. Therefore, he is nosing everywhere continuously. Always burdening himself unnecessarily, always fearing what might happen if he doesn't do so. Stressed out..

I mean... .this guy wants to take credit of even seeing and reminding and what not...

I guess that's it.

I feel a little as if I had a very difficult relationship with, say, a partner. Full of friction, misunderstanding, lack of dialogue. And quite suddenly, a very spacious thing opens up. And, in a sense, both are the same, but somehow you don't blame, argue, etc., anymore. I accept her faults. And mine. Even with a smile. We are friends again.

That kind of feeling.

Love.

What's your experience, Ilona? Does this only work as a Seeker Syndrome Buster? What about those not infected? Very little use. I read on the "What would you say..."page, I think, some saying , "If you want to be happy...", which of course include all humans - and not humans, but we have a little trouble communicating with. I read a few on the GG book , and you considered most or all , needing just a little push.

Ilona

Sep 24

Hi Hernan.

Thank you for beautiful answers. Yes, you are good to go :)

This is only a beginning of opening and exploring how life is without the belief in separation and control. Enjoy the ride!

From your answers I can see that gate was crossed. It always seems easy when you read someone else's journey through the gate, but of course it's not possible to judge from words how it was for them, it appears easy and fast but it's not necessarily so. All we can know is how it is for us. For me it was 4 months of cutting through beliefs that I was full of and that bloody hurt. Then one look directly at no self and recognition that there never was a separated entity in charge happened. Since then life has a different flavor. Seeking dropped at that instant of seeing, home was found. The shift was very subtle and I had no idea at the time of what is next, but I knew I have to share this with as many people as possible. And I'm so delighted, that you see this too.. Simple, profound, obvious.

All those hidden beliefs will come to fall, some fall of without much drama, some need investigation and focus, all that is not accepted still will come up to be accepted. It's a wild journey ahead. The over zealous boss may still raise his head and fight, but now it can be appreciated and honored as part of everything.

The ego is no longer yours. It's just a pattern of behavior when painful points are pressed. And it will continue to react, till beliefs are there. This is now clean up time :)

I usually put the conversations up on my blog, is this ok with you? I can use your name or whatever name you like. It may help someone else to look.

Much love !

Hernan

Sep 26 

Hi Ilona.

Thank you for this letter. I was going to ask you how was it for you and now what is next. I f you have some other suggestions to read...

Is there anything from the others who are on the wild journey ahead'?  Partly for myself. Partly to know it's scope, for others. That is why I asked about it's success with those who are not seekers. 

Are there not many who mess it up and return to square one( that is never true, but 'looking like')?

Or at least, stranded there? You seem to have complete confidence in that everyone is going to walk his path. And that no one needs any guidance. Not surprising when I think in what you are doing.

Anyway I have begun to recommend it. And I can think of maaaaany who could benefit enormously.

And also was going to complete the simile: then one day, the boss stressed himself out and is sent to rest by his doctor. When he comes back, he finds his employees have managed perfectly, ney, even outcome is better, not to mention the whole atmosphere has changed. Everyone is relaxed, enjoying their job and the friendship that has developed. :-D

Yep, the noose of circumstances is tightening; the visa issue seems to be, or could become serious. So a tad anxious....And yet... It is all right. I'll do my best to solve it. This will be THE test. It looks good.

It is hard to believe.

I can't thank you enough. I hope at some point to do it for others. And meanwhile, will be suggesting acquaintances to go through it.

Much love.

H

Yes , sure, with my name it's Ok. You can title it: "If this guy for which almost nothing works got it, then you sure have a chance". Or : "Hopeless seeker since age 10..." Ha!

...

Ilona

Thank you Hernan. I will put conversation in the next few days, it's busy times here..

Once other guides read it, they may have questions, if not, it will invite you to LU groups. There are many people that you can share with. Each character has a unique path and unfoldment, many are just after 'the gate' that will be interesting to connect with.

There are various groups for explorations further. What's next- life brings it the next step. Some have a honeymoon period, some don't. Some have a dramatically collapse of beliefs some gentle, fun times ahead, that's for sure.

When looked back, you will notice how certain patterns are no longer there, they just drop. Some need intense looking and questioning beliefs. It's an interesting journey and it's only started!

Some see it deeper then others and some fall back into -I haven't seeing it- trap. Some never have any doubt at all. It's really is unique. How it is for you no one else can experience.

You can always write to me..

Much love