My simple answer is this: when a kid realises that Santa is not real, does the he live in the state of "no Santa" for the rest of his life? I feel nothing special about Santa being fiction, I don't think about it. (Other than using Santa example here sometimes) Life goes on. Experiences are happening. But question is this Santa state or no-Santa state does not arise, it's irrelevant. It's not a question.
So when one is looking for a permanent state of no self, one is imagining that there is such a state. One imagines that it's something that is not what one experiences. But states come and go, the present state, as it is here now is ever changing. Breathing is happening, sounds are heard, view is being seen, movements are felt, that's the present experience in whole of its glory. Calling this dual or non dual, self or no self or even experience is irrelevant. It's here now. With and without names. This does not care if it's named at all. And thoughts arise and pass as part of the whole movement of the whole moment. There is no separateness and no unity, all these ideas are overlaid on what is indivisible and always here.
The silent space of here now does not change. Sense of being is not being switched on or off at will. The content of experience is changing like a kaleidoscope, it has many angles to explore: some are pink and rosy, some dark and heavy. That's ok. Search or not for another experience, it changes by itself and all passes.
Realising that experience here now simply is as it is, with and without names and has nothing to do with self or no self, dual or non dual, frees the question.
Perhaps those that look for permanent non dual / no self state are really looking for something else, like bliss 24/7, being at peace, feeling of oneness, unity, flowing, staying always happy and high? That too is a fantasy, unless you are constantly on mind altering substances, or have a highly evolved abilities.
Preferred states are great and while they last they are delicious. Unwanted states are part of life too, it does not mean that these states are somehow dual.
"Perhaps those that look for permanent non dual / no self state are really looking for something else, like bliss 24/7, being at peace, feeling of oneness, unity, flowing, staying always happy and high?"
ReplyDeleteNot really. What "I" would love to experience is a permanent cessation of afflictive states (anger, hatred, greed, etc.) and generally ego-centered mental chatter. A few---and they are extremely few---folks who've experienced what in Zen is called "satori" claim to experience that.
What would your life be like if you had never heard of "satori"?
DeleteWhat is the point of this question? Those who have not heard of it are unhappy as well as most of those who have.
DeleteWhat is the point of this question? Those who have not heard of it are unhappy as well as most of those who have.
DeleteI think all you guys need to go back to the only teaching: that of the Lord Buddha. He taught in the sutras that there are FOUR stages to enlightenment. Realization of Non-self, anatta, is only the first. Anger, greed, lust etc., only disappear after the third stage. So to answer your explicit and implicit questions: Yes such a state of permanent freedom from afflictions does exist, but no, it is not achieved with the first stage of Anatta.
ReplyDelete@anon, but after anatta the rest of the stages need to happen on its own as there is no more a person who believes something could be done
ReplyDeleteBefore or after anatta, everything always happens on its own. There never was a person.
DeleteIt only appears that we are here. The only escape route is choosing in the moment what's real or unreal and letting it go to spirit. No one's done anything wrong... Right. As no one is actually here. Hiding from guilt over the separation that never happened. Trying to fix the dream..only makes you feel good in the dream. Doesn't help you escape.
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ReplyDeleteThere is not such a thing as non dual state. Non dual is a fact of everyone's being the same fact as non Santa. The only diference is that some people know it some not. Thats it.
ReplyDeleteHow to realise that Self is not real ?
ReplyDeleteMany times I saw the self is only one of thought but this is not permanent. There is famous sentence "what's been seen cannot be unseen" but for me this doesn't working. Maybe I looking for state of "no self" ? I remember how to realise there is no Santa, simply my friend told me and I ask my parents and they confirm that Santa is not real. If realisation "no Santa" is equal realisation "no self" that this case is only knowledge, real knowledge ?
I looking at my everyday activities and I don't find "I" in this. I know this I it's only another mental label - this is that realistation ? I don't get it.
Sorry for my language, English is not my native language :).
Perhaps it is better understood as a state of Self rather than a state of no self. It should be understood however, that the Self is not a "state".
DeleteAnonymous dear,
ReplyDeleteLooked at closely there is no difference between yours and the blogger's wiews.
ReplyDeleteIf there happens a cessation of aflictive states and ego centered chatter,what remains in the balance.It must be something like bliss,peace etc.
ReplyDeleteI’ve been searching for some decent stuff on the subject and haven't had any luck up until this point, You just got a new biggest fan!..
ReplyDeletenon duality
Wakefulness is the Way to life, the fool sleeps as if he were already dead, but the Master is awake and he lives forever. non dual teachers
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ReplyDeletenon dual teachers
By following David's Spreaker show via the new Free App on iTunes, you can gain great insights into the true experience of non-dual Awakening. David has a miraculous way of moving far beyond an intellectual understanding of non-duality, with a deep Presence of direct experience with Oneness. non dual awareness
ReplyDeleteDavid Hoffmeister is a teacher and living demonstration of non dual teachings and philosophy. His gentle demeanor and articulate, non-compromising expression are a gift to all. non dual teacher
ReplyDelete