How does it feel to be liberated?

Hello, Ilona,


I found your blog today from a discussion on Facebook. Are you still available to have dialogues? I went to your "Start Here" page and wrote down, "There is no self in reality at all." Here’s my report:


•  Felt peace, and at the same time excitement. Saw clear, continuous aliveness, uninterrupted by appearances. Sigh of relief.

•  Digging deeper, wrote down "Not even this relieved self, or peaceful perceiver of aliveness exists in reality." "NO PERCEIVER"

•  Slight frustration, because that ‘doesn't make sense’.

•  What is this frustration protecting? If there is no self, there's no perceiver and nothing to protect.

•  Doubt comes up that "I" can be enlightened and see through the separate "I". Laughter: that doesn't make sense either.

•  What is doubt protecting? A sense that I could lose it and be out of control?

•  This doubt and fear is part of the "I" belief. WHO has an I belief? Does an organic arising like a leaf or wave have an I belief?

•  A leaf or wave has no belief, just momentary arising and falling of appearances within continuous aliveness.

 
That's how far I got.
 Thanks so much,
 
Matt


Hi Matt,

Thank you for writing to me.  I will help you with all I got, to work this out. :)

Yes your doubt is spot on. "I" cannot get enlightened. There is no I, and there is no enlightenment.  We’re looking for a drop of belief.

Imagine you are holding a spoon right now. Just imagine, how much does it weigh? What is it made of? Keep this image in mind until it feels real.

Now, I say there is no spoon in reality. What can you do to see that? You just look, and see that it is true—there is no spoon. The spoon was imagined.

It is exactly the same with the self. There is no self. What you do is look: can it be found in real life? No, it's only imagined. But since you have believed for your whole life that there is a separate entity, it's not as easy as seeing that there is no spoon. We need to cut through this illusion until you see it clearly.

We need to look into thought with thought. So let's start here: can you control thoughts? Can you stop them mid-stream? Can you know what the next thought will be? Where do thoughts come from? How does thinking work?

Just write everything that you feel is true.  Let's see what you got.





 Dear Ilona,


“What you do is look: can it be found in real life? No, it's only imagined.”

 Yes, these appearing sensations and thoughts CANNOT be evidence of a separate self! It's just like the spoon. There were vivid sensations and qualities appearing when I was imagining it, but when I looked, nothing. Same with Matt. Thank you for the imaginary spoon metaphor. Brilliant.

 “But you have been believing that there is a separate entity for whole your life, so it's not as easy as seeing that there is no spoon.”

 True. But can one half-second glimpse like that really cut through a lifetime of false belief? I don't know if there's a shift yet.

By the way, I am willing to repeat the "looking" and try harder. I don't know what your perspective is on "effortlessness". Some say that trying hard "re-engages the ego". I would guess you're not worried about that, since you say there is no such ego entity that could be re-engaged. ;-)

 

“We need to look into thought with thought. So let's start here: can you control thoughts?” No, even the belief that I can control thoughts is a thought, and I have no idea how that thought got here.


“Can you stop them in mid-stream?”

Impossible. Thoughts don't seem to have any duration,  anyway.

“Can you know what the next thought will be?”

Impossible. What an arrogant assumption I’ve harbored—that I'm in control of some future experience!

 “Where do thoughts come from?”

 Nowhere. Perhaps from some natural chemical reaction somewhere, but that's a thought too, and I don't see a concrete source for it.

 “How does thinking work?”

 Thinking seems to be a complex but empty functioning of a nervous system, like the dance of the bees. The 'I'-thought claims agency, as if a thought can think thoughts. Bitter, grievous illusion! (small tears). Disgusting. Thank you.


Hi Matt,

You are doing very well! No, it's more than a half-second glimpse. We will be looking until there is absolute certainty.

Yes, your answers about thought are spot on. Now we need to look at the content of thought and the labeling process itself.

Close your eyes and notice what is going on. Can you identify the feeling of aliveness, beingness, 'am' that is always there unchanging? Stay with this for a bit. Notice how breathing happens, and notice the sounds as breath moves in and out. Notice the mind labeling everything that is experienced:

Breathing comes, and the mind labels it, “I’m breathing.”
Hearing comes, and the mind says, “I hear.”
Feeling appears, “I feel….”
Noticing is happening and the label comes: “I notice....”

Now, check to see if there is a real breather in there, a hearer, a feeler, a noticer.

Play with this a bit and see what you find. Notice that “I” is just a word, a label that comes before other words or labels. “I” is just part of language.

Then, open your eyes and look around. See things in the room: the word table points to a real table. The word ‘monitor’ points to a real monitor. The word ‘body’ points to a real body.  The word ‘hand’ points to a real hand.

Now look and see if there is 'self' in real life. Can you find one? What does the word 'self' point to? Please write when you are ready. :)




Dear Ilona,


I got busy with work today, but this is what I wrote, mostly in the morning. Thank you again for staying with me on this.



Close your eyes and notice what is going on. Can you identify the feeling of aliveness, beingness, 'am' that is always there unchanging? Stay with this for a bit. Notice how breathing happens, and notice the sounds as breath moves in and out. Notice the mind labeling everything that is experienced:
Breathing comes, and the mind labels it, “I’m breathing.”
Hearing comes, and the mind says, “I hear.”
Feeling appears, “I feel….”



Yes, it is all just labeling! Without labels, all that is just amorphous, nondescript clouds of sensation (if anything...). And the labeling is intimately connected to this 'I' label, as if it is 'I' that is seeing and inspecting these sensations and labels. And this 'I' thought often seems to associate itself with the eyeballs-sensation. "Where am I? Behind the eyes." But the eyes and the space behind are also just sensation-plus-assumption, and without labels, they are indescribable sensations that are actually hard to locate or pin down or describe in any way.



“Now, check to see if there is a real breather in there, a hearer, a feeler, a noticer.”

I can't find anything that is certain here; everything is shifting, dark, murky, jumbled. When I look for a breather, hearer and feeler, an image or a feeling is seen as if by these 'closed eyes'. I can't be an image or a feeling. When I look for the seer of the image labeled 'closed eyes', the 'I' shifts to another kind of sensation or attitude or energy pattern that reminds my of my father somehow: another psychophysical image.

Then it seems that all of this is appearing on an open, airy movie screen that is not directly visible. Open, alive awareness. Am I not this open awareness? It is not a separate thing; it is one with whatever appears. There is no separate 'I' to be found—only sensations appearing in non-separate, open nothingness. Even though it is invisible it seems this no-thingness is alive, dynamic, clear. So ultimately no, I can't find an entity that is doing breathing, hearing, feeling.

 “Play with this a bit and see what you find. Notice that ‘I’ is just a word, a label that comes before other words or labels. ‘I’ is just part of language.”  


Yes, 'I' is just a word / idea / experience seemingly behind all the other words / ideas / experiences. It is a convention of language that is believed, like the imaginary spoon. The word "spoon" is not a spoon. The word 'I' is not a separate self.

 

“Noticing is happening and the label comes: ‘I notice....’” Yes, there's that sense of ownership / agency / identity again, claiming its own separate existence.

 

Then, open your eyes and look around. See things in the room: the word table points to a real table. The word ‘monitor’ points to a real monitor. The word ‘body’ points to a real body.  The word ‘hand’ points to a real hand.  Now look and see if there is 'self' in real life. Can you find one? What does the word 'self' point to?” It certainly doesn't point to anything that I can find. It is a false belief, blind faith, a bizarre ‘religious cult’ of suffering. The word 'self' points to the word ‘self’, that’s it.





   Awesome, Matt. So is there a separate self at all? Was there ever?

No, it's logically impossible. That is the intellectual conviction here, superimposed on the cesspool of lethargy and ignorance. I still need help!


OK, no problem, let's get you to seeing. There is no self at all in real life. What feelings inside come up right now?


•  Is there anything there trying to protect you? If so, what? What is behind the feelings?

•  Look at the truth, accept it is truth and let the true reveal itself.

•  Is there a 'you' to see it?



Thank you so much. I will spend some time with this in the morning and write back then!

.......



“There is no self at all in real life. What feelings inside come up right now?”

I think a little bit sad; all the energy that went into building the 'self' up, controlling him, making him stand out—all of that was a waste of time.



Yes, it's sad. Just let that be OK.



Thank you SO much for saying that. It really IS okay that thoughts or energies labeled "sadness" flow through the open space of awareness



Yes, all was going on on automatic anyway, just as it is now. There is no choice, no free will, all is life; all is flow, no matter how it may seem from a limited perspective.



YES, all is open flow, including the thoughts and labels that appear to be a "limited perspective".

“Is there anything trying to protect you? If so, what?”
 Those feelings are about protecting 'specialness', arrogance, rightness.



Look now, what is behind specialness?



Fear about not being special, not being 'something', which is really fear of death.

Yes, that which does not exist cannot die. Isn't that just crazy, how fear of death is constantly there, when there is nothing to die?



It’s literally crazy; it's psychotic paranoia.



Again, what is behind arrogance, what is behind rightness? Are they anything else but thoughts? If so, what is behind the thoughts?



Yes, all the above are indeed just thoughts and nothing else! Thoughts about thoughts, indicating nothing else but thoughts. Strangely, there seems to be a protective force against thriving—being totally alive and well and illumined.



That is just programming, conditioning and conflicting beliefs; clutter in the system that does not let it run smoothly. I call it iVirus. It’s just a set of data in the system that needs to be removed, so the system can run freely. What is behind it?



iVirus, yes! And looking will 'remove' it. Behind all of these data (and others, if they come up), is the interpretation or ‘point of view’ of separate self. A point of view is not solid, separate; it is transparent to awareness, aliveness, beingness. Points of view are no problem.



When a point of view is taken for reality, it's a problem. As long as you know that the point of view is just a story, it stops having power. It dissolves.


Also, write down what you expect from this. Sometimes a subtle belief can be in a way. Just get it all out in writing.



I expect from 'looking' to see very clearly, with certainty and permanence, that there is no separate, substantial i-self. Then I hope to be forever happy and humble and generous and loving (and spiritually successful and special!) — it all comes back to the belief in an individual 'I', and the hope of 'enlightening the I'.

There is nothing I've found yet that exists in order that it can be enlightened. I have nothing to substantiate the belief that there is a real 'person' here. No proof whatsoever. Just an old story. Yes, the story has no power if there is no belief feeding it.



Good, look at the truth, accept it is truth and let the truth reveal itself. It really helps at this point to get out into nature and observe totality. Just spend some time in a park :) Looking forward to your reply :))

Thanks!

I’ll continue later. Got to run! Not much nature here. Could do that in a couple weeks, perhaps. Thanks so much!!



Nature can be found everywhere. You are not outside of it. :) Keep looking and just notice the obvious.

…….

Thank you, I was able to look deep and long while walking through the city.


“…Look at the truth, accept it is truth and let the truth reveal itself.”

The truth is, I have looked and I have not yet been able to locate a separate, substantial 'me'. When there seems to be a 'me', it's clearly not a 'me', but a mere story made of sensation and thought. Ilona, when am I going to be satisfied and give up trying to locate this non-existent entity?!
  

Is there a 'you' to see it?



There is no 'me' trying to locate a non-existent entity! There is no 'me' looking for me. There is no 'me' typing a message. There is no 'me' who believes in empty stories.

 Much gratitude.



Awesome stuff, Matt.
I see that it's almost there, last few steps :)

Forever happy? That sounds a bit like the ending of a fairy tale....

Yes, so, let's let the fairy tale end! ;-)



After seeing through illusion life does not change, it's the same as always been, “chop wood, carry water....” What changes is the feeling inside! There is freedom in every experience. Freedom to feel, to express, to live, to enjoy. It's freedom to feel anger and not be consumed by it. Happy ending is end of loops of judgment feeding on themselves.... So don't expect life suddenly transform. It will over time. With every belief dropped there will be more and more peace in the head. Again, “specialness” is a quality of a human infected with iVirus. Once it's removed, then specialness goes too. There comes the ordinarily simple human being. :) and peace within with what is.



Beautiful.


I see that it's almost there, just a few final steps. :) Let it settle a bit, live through the day just noticing the obvious, and answer me these questions:



1. Is there a self in any shape or form in reality? Was there ever?



"Self" is a just label, a habitual thought. Although the habit is still strong, this thought has no form that I can locate or substantiate. Thought has not shape or form in reality. There is no separate self that has any shape or form in reality. There is no one who has a habitual thought. Thoughts without a thinker. Sensations without a sensor.



2. Explain in detail how the self works and what is it.



The "self" doesn't "work" at all, it only appears to exist and function. The self is empty of self. The functioning of a non-existing entity is non-existent, empty. Thoughts of separateness have no duration or real existence of their own. Thought is empty of itself. Only Existence exists through the apparent thoughts and sensations that appear to describe separateness. These thoughts and sensations appear to appear and simultaneously disappear, revealing only the Open Space of Aware Existence. The thought or sensation that says "self" is not even thought and sensation; it is nothing other than the Open Space of Aware Existence Itself.



3. How does it feel to be liberated? :)



Exactly the same as ever, only sweeter because there is no anxiety around those feelings. There is no anxiety about "becoming liberated". There is no desire for a different state.



Oh, yes!! I see that you are through! :)



Strong doubts and reservations arise, but they are also empty, without substance or power.

They will keep arising until they don't anymore. You know that, so just keep looking behind stuff.

 

Thank you, you are so kind.



Sweet! I'm so happy for you. Welcome to living free! :)
So, what was it that made you realise? Anything in particular?



Nothing in particular! Nothing really happened, and everything is exactly the same as before: I'm still grumpy and lazy, etc. — it's just that all this is clearly beside the point. Maybe it was when you asked, "How does it feel to be liberated?" That question was not directed at the mind, and I gently noticed there was never any boundary between "liberated" and "not yet liberated". The mind always looks for some non-existent boundary, and is expecting some special experience or bliss. But even that silly tendency is okay. Everything is the same, but everything is okay.



Good one! Matt, thank you very much for looking. It is a real pleasure to meet you.



You are a pleasure, and a miracle—giving anonymous people your time, not charging people money or claiming something special about yourself. Just patiently asking people to look for themselves. Bless you!



Thank you. Big smile here :)))) By the way, could you expand a bit on “sweeter”? Do you notice anything else different in everyday life? Can you talk about it more, please.

"Sweeter" is vividly felt when I'm writing this, focusing on these facts. It's like 'being at home' with everything exactly as it already is. It's a sweet miracle that everything can appear while being without substance. The "feeling" of sweetness seems to ebb and flow. But the sweetness is not merely a feeling—it's deeper than that. All of us are already at home in liberation, even in our suffering. That's paradoxically sweet, or maybe bitter-sweet.



So much appreciation…. :)))



So much appreciation for the sweetness we call "Ilona" and for her selfless communication.

Love forever,
 
Matt

Love forever.

Mr L is Processing...

L:
Indeed good morning to you dear Ilona.

My name is L, I live in france.
Last weekend, I spent many hours in utter conviction, realisation, seeing that there is no self at all, no me, no center and nothing personal in the life labelled L's.

This came after years of intense non stop seeking. I ve seen it, shared it, with great clarity... Many many times... but frustration and especially doubt of self had me somehow "buy again" the plan of distraction, afraid of the fear, of the protective mechanism.

So, in short, yoyo between quiet nothingness and agitated I-thought automatic reactions.

The suffering gets so intense at times... but the suffering is also a push to remember what I Truly want...get back to God feeling within... kick doubt and fear's ass, and back to looking.

Talking about looking or seeing, I sense and see that it is tainted, and that there is a judgment ( subtle or gross) of some of what is noticed, but also a fear, a "on guard" constant feeling that is like a cloud of agitated energy that is talkative and that filters the looking.
It is filtered as a subtle "my looking".

I've " encountered" your web site for a few days, after last weekend's amazing  no-mind no-I state realised, and I've been staying up till 5 am since then, reading and doing the answering thing as best as I could with Tom, D and jessica... and all the times I lived it if I were them.

Tonight... 4:02... I go ahead and write to you, asking you if you would take my hand through all this.
I know i' m ready to go all the way... through a door that is already open, but clouded by a hanging belief in "not good enough" , fear, and doubting  of my own seeing.

Warm thanks in advance.

Much much love,
L


Ilona:
Hi L,

Thank you very much for writing to me. It is time to resolve this once and for all.

I'll ask you some question and please answer with full honesty, only when you are ready.

1. What are your expectations? What do you think will happen when you 'go through'?

2. Is there a self in real life at all?

3. What are precise feelings inside when you think about question above? Can you look at them, bring them closer and identify where in the body they are felt? Can you look what is behind?

4. What is fear? Just look at it, let it be, and see if it can reveal itself to you.


Thank you.

It's early morning here too. I'm in uk ;)

   
 (2 days ago)
L:   
Yeah!!!!
Still up with incredible energy... still looking and looking... and getting clearer.
Thank you so very much for your response.
I ll do my best to be precise and cut through doubt and resistance.

> What are your expectations? What do you think will happen when you 'go through'?


The end of suffering. The returning to a life of clarity, love and wonderful power behind me, with this time a full stop on the belief in "I control". I say returning cause I've lived some magic times 7 years ago... and although I understand it is not kosher to cling to past, I still want to be honest and not hide anything from this processing.

Btw, it feels like the main thing will be to feel the difference between past spiritual intellectual and/or experiential knowledge, and what is actually the case, what rings true for me.

So, what else do I expect?
To make it! To succeed finally with this project. (nice to see this, for this looks like a set up not to succeed...)

There Is also this thing with dying... some hero stuff... and resurrecting into Life.

Of course I ve had the actual experience and seeing of the simplicity of What is, but what I wrote might be helpful.

What will happen when I go through?
I don't know. But there's a great wanting to go through. Btw, it felt like many times in these 7 years I almost went through with a lingering strong mind wanting to control, coach me to maintain the high and protect me against falling back... which of course happened in the experience.
As I write all this, there is fear of falling into some void... nothingness, and maybe suffering big time... awful stuff!!!

> Is there a self in real life at all?

Less and less. I understand that all is automatic dance and play of energies and various complicated patterns, mental patterns, and I love to notice that noone is actually behind anyone's eyes!
It's not a constant realisation though. It comes and goes, although it seems to stick more and more... as a knowledge that greets my consciousness more and more... and, ouf, allows me to RELAX!!


> What are precise feelings inside when you think about question above? Can you look at them, bring them closer and identify where in the body they are felt? Can you look what is behind?



Fear, uneasiness, stop breathing, breathing very slow... and surfacy... Lower back pressure, solar plexus pressure, nausea coming, throat heat and scratching, belly inside movements,

Also, some sadness, wanting to cry now, energy flowing in arms, shoulders,  ..upper   chest burning...
all this as I let myself feel what's coming up....

a lot of energy, loud buzzing in ears (very often) , thirst....

What is behind? Do you mean in terms a someone there? Or as other feelings hiding underneath?
If it is the first, then I don't see an I there. There seems to be one behind the looking though...
But knowing that I is a label, and cannot see anything, that relaxes the looking.

You see, it's always been a danse between tension and relaxing... wondering if I m not so much attached to both... resisting final release... playing guilty for bad choices... staying thus in control and power... Realising more and more that I don't control anything..
but this realisation is not yet taken to heart.


> What is fear? Just look at it, let it be, and see if it can reveal itself to you.

An energy, a protection against ??, a tension.

Waiting to know your comments on this first.

Much love,
L
................................   
hello again!

as for the last question, about fear,
i see that fear protects me from doubt and confusion,
for doubt and confusion (=not knowing.... intellectually!!) means great suffering,
feeling unanchored and awful.
that's why (maybe) I hold on to it so much.
Fear takes very often the shape of a quick contraction/stab in the solar p^lexux, like a trying to cut whatever has been "seen" or EVOKED from coming into play.
So there's alsoo the belief that fear protects me from my own mind, which I fear.
Which i dont trust, which power can take me high but also very low.
so i developped a almost automatic stabbing in the stomach that will PROTECT me from my own beast.
that's the screwed up of my mind.


as i write this, i feel like questionning the existence of the I or me feeling behind all of these ideas.

thank you again for your patience in these early steps of exchanging.

Love,
L
   
  What are your expectations? What do you think will happen when you 'go through'?

The end of suffering. The returning to a life of clarity, love and wonderful power behind me, with this time a full stop on the belief in "I control". I say returning cause I've lived some magic times 7 years ago... and although I understand it is not kosher to cling to past, I still want to be honest and not hide anything from this processing.

Sufferings ends when sufferer drops.


 Btw, it feels like the main thing will be to feel the difference between past spiritual intellectual and/or experiential knowledge, and what is actually the case, what rings true for me.

The past drops too..



 So, what else do I expect?
 To make it! To succeed finally with this project. (nice to see this, for this looks like a set up not to succeed...)
As I is exposed and belief drops, there is no one left to succeed.
 There Is also this thing with dying... some hero stuff... and resurrecting into Life.

>Nothing dies. Nothing that is not real can ever die. Look- can batman die in real life?

 Of course I ve had the actual experience and seeing of the simplicity of What is, but what I wrote might be helpful.

 What will happen when I go through?
 I don't know. But there's a great wanting to go through. Btw, it felt like many times in these 7 years I almost went through with a lingering strong mind wanting to control, coach me to maintain the high and protect me against falling back... which of course happened in the experience.
 As I write all this, there is fear of falling into some void... nothingness, and maybe suffering big time... awful stuff!!!
>Yes, there is void, here is nothingness and the fear of it.


>> Is there a self in real life at all?

Less and less. I understand that all is automatic dance and play of energies and various complicated patterns, mental patterns, and I love to notice that noone is actually behind anyone's eyes!
 It's not a constant realisation though. It comes and goes, although it seems to stick more and more... as a knowledge that greets my consciousness more and more... and, ouf, allows me to RELAX!!

>Good stuff, but there is still self somewhere hidden. We will look at it together.

>> What are precise feelings inside when you think about question above? Can you look at them, bring them closer and identify where in the body they are felt? Can you look what is behind?

 Fear, uneasiness, stop breathing, breathing very slow... and surfacy... Lower back pressure, solar plexus pressure, nausea coming, throat heat and scratching, belly inside movements,
 Also, some sadness, wanting to cry now, energy flowing in arms, shoulders,  ..upper   chest burning...
all this as I let myself feel what's coming up....
 a lot of energy, loud buzzing in ears (very often) , thirst....


Wow, a lot of resistance here. It's ok. Just let it be there and don't push it away. It's a friend at this point. Honour the feelings.

 What is behind? Do you mean in terms a someone there? Or as
other feelings hiding underneath?
 If it is the first, then I don't see an I there. There seems to be one behind the looking though...
But knowing that I is a label, and cannot see anything, that relaxes the looking.

So you found the looker! Look at the looker, is it real? Or is it just another label?
 

 You see, it's always been a danse between tension and relaxing... wondering if I m not so much attached to both... resisting final release... playing guilty for bad choices... staying thus in control and power... Realising more and more that I don't control anything.but this realisation is not yet taken to heart.


It's ok, we'll get there. 

What is fear? Just look at it, let it be, and see if it can reveal itself to you.

> An energy, a protection against ??, a tension.

Look at fear as a protection mechanism. It is guarding something. It's doing it's job very well. Bow to it. Honour it. Thank it for doing it's job. Look at fear again. What is behind? Is there anything needed to be protected? 

> Waiting to know your comments on this first.
>



> hello again!
>
> as for the last question, about fear,
> i see that fear protects me from doubt and confusion,
> for doubt and confusion (=not knowing.... intellectually!!) means great suffering,
> feeling unanchored and awful.
> that's why (maybe) I hold on to it so much.

What is or that you know for sure? I mean really know, not believe?
All opinions, knowing and knowledge are learned from others. What do you know?


> Fear takes very often the shape of a quick contraction/stab in the solar p^lexux, like a trying to cut whatever has been "seen" or EVOKED from coming into play.
> So there's alsoo the belief that fear protects me from my own mind, which I fear.

Belief, only belief, fear- false evidence appearing real.



  Which i dont trust, which power can take me high but also very low. so i developped a almost automatic stabbing in the stomach that will PROTECT me from my own beast.that's the screwed up of my mind.
As we free the fear all this is gonna drop. Trust it.
ago)
   
Thank you dear Ilona.

Nothing dies. Nothing that is not real can ever die. Look- can batman die in real life?

Well, no, Batman, Santa or Spiderman cannot die in real life.
By the same token, me cannot die in real life either.
It is a label.
Can L die? Same. It is a bunch of letters put together... and underneath them no entity found.

You say "nothing dies". I dont know that , like i know that batman doesn't.
Isnt this just a belief, compare to batman I see that it cannot die in real life?


Good stuff, buy there is still self somewhere hidden. We will look at it together.

cool. :-)

So you found the looker! Look at the looker, is it real? Or is it just another label?

No it isn't... there is noone there looking... no entity.
but that is mixed with doubt.... or, better said, doubting energies are accompanying this....
"you wont keep it... wont be able to, etc..."

It's ok, we'll get there.

I love you

Look at fear again. What is behind? Is there anything needed to be protected? 
Let me release the wanting to find out....
it is protecting me. like a friend, a dear friend.
i'm happy to see this.
Then me is two letters.... so there isnt anyone to be protected.


What is or that you know for sure? I mean really know, not believe?
All opinions, knowing and knowledge are learned from others. What do you know?

I wrote:i see that fear protects me from doubt and confusion,
> for doubt and confusion (=not knowing.... intellectually!!) means great suffering,
> feeling unanchored and awful.
well, it is what i came up withj after looking so many times.
I BELIEVE that fear, the jumping "be careful" sensation, arises when the possibility of loosing control is felt or sensed or believed.
I also BELIEVE that my experience showed me that "loosing a piece of knowledge" is experienced as terror..... as being really threatened.... then a chain reaction of panic... confusion... hate and resistance.

BUT your question, the second part of it, got me really looking.
"What do I know?" Well, in truth nothing.
All is based on past information.
When i ask if I know for sure, all goes blank and i actually like the state of depth, slowness, emptiness that puts me in.
So it is NOT TRUE that I dont like or fear the state of not knowing.

If i linger awhile on the question, like I did, I can know that experience is happening.
And as soon as I go to "knowing" what is observable, with seeming cause and effects, alll i know is bullshit.
In this state of seeing, it all fits perfectly nice....
when i move out of it.... and start to get automatically interested in things, agitative labelling AND "on-guard seeing" is on again.

I want to adress the on-guard looking... fearful of the rising thought.
There is the feeling that this on-guard seeing is there cause I need to block and process ALL that comes up, and quickly.
This is so tiring.

I tried releasing wanting to catch thoughts, understand, classify, etc....
It's a mechanism that seems to be aimed at reassuring me.
That's why i talked about protective shield of mind.
But it is protecting the sense of me.
When i see that it is vacant, all relaxes :-)
When i dont, fire alarm is on.

Question: you say that this is only belief.
And i can see it.
But how does it drop?
How do i let go of holding on to it?


much love and thanks.
I love this.

L
days ago)
   
Hello again!!

another detail: the thought-suggestion of doing (let's do this, do that, dont do this, should i do this....) comes up with great uneasiness.... the "famous" stabbing... that i called fear of doubting... and of falling into suffering again.

but I read and agreed on the fact that instead of feeling victim of this, I could start to see that the other side of this coin is that this fear allows me to believe I'm in control!
When I see that right away, it all relaxes again.
But doesnt this puts too much emphasis on the mind, the intellect knowing and having to remember the "reason"?

this is a headache.
It feels that the answer is in a totally different way.

Love,
L

   
Ok L, I see you are right at the 'gate'.

Let's examine the sense of 'me'

Can you close your eyes and find the feeling of aliveness, being, am.. That feeling that is constant no matter what, no matter when. 
Stay with it, notice breathing happening...

Then focus on mind- thoughts arising, labelling happening.
Sense of being + labelling= 'sense of me'

Is it a sense of self? Or is it impersonal, open sense of aliveness?

Consider an animal, let's say it's a cat. It feels alive and aware, does he need  'me' to sense aliveness?

Watch how mind labels everything without a pause, it's just carries on : I hear the sound, I breath, I feel, I sense...

Stay with it until you notice that there is no 'me' labelling, but labelling is happening and most common label is 'I' or 'me'. Just a word preceding other words.

Can you see the difference between experiencing feelings and sensations and experience of mind labbeling all that? It's ALL going on by itself. No driver anywhere. 

Can you see that there is no one looking, but looking is just happening and there is no you seeing, but seeing just is. 



Let me know how that goes.
Much love.

   


> Hello again!!
>
> another detail: the thought-suggestion of doing (let's do this, do that, dont do this, should i do this....) comes up with great uneasiness.... the "famous" stabbing... that i called fear of doubting... and of falling into suffering again.
>

At this point examine doubt itself. What is it, how does it work? What is behind?


> but I read and agreed on the fact that instead of feeling victim of this, I could start to see that the other side of this coin is that this fear allows me to believe I'm in control!

There is no victim, only a story. There is no control, only a story that thoughts run like a old tape.



> When I see that right away, it all relaxes again.
> But doesnt this puts too much emphasis on the mind, the intellect knowing and having to remember the "reason"?
>

All this will drop, don't worry for now..Let or just pass by.

> this is a headache.
> It feels that the answer is in a totally different way.
>
> Love,
> L


The answer is not what 'you' expect. Don't expect, assume anything, just take a look. What is real?

   
Ok L, I see you are right at the 'gate'.

Let's examine the sense of 'me'

Can you close your eyes and find the feeling of aliveness, being, am.. That feeling that is constant no matter what, no matter when. 

Ok. I seem to have difficulties finding the feeling of aliveness. Dont know where to look for it. Frustration and resistance, talking about how i am failing at this... (self doubt)
There was at the beginning a sense of happiness, of joy....
but i was trying too hard with the mind, the attention, to grasp the answer, to feel the feeling of beingness.
I tend to be more natural with the sense of knowingness or awareness that the experience is happening....
but i must say that the efforting created a feeling of awfulness in the solar plexus....
nausea.... and i see some heavy reactions to that feeling.... so that builds up in a quick rolercoster of darkness.
It's good to have seen that and somehow to show it to you (it reassures me a little, and it is here, felt!)

Stay with it, notice breathing happening...

Then focus on mind- thoughts arising, labelling happening.
Sense of being + labelling= 'sense of me'

resistance doesnt allow me to go further in seeing anything.
as soon as I intend to answer, to put my mind on a question, a doing you're asking me to accomplish, it diverses attention quickly.... feelings of hate and fear...

ok. So you told me to honour the fear and resistance.
I see them as protective shield... protecting me from disappearing .
I ask the feelings to tell me what's up.
"We're victim!!" they say. I answer no, we're not.
what are you protecting?
"you".
Let me see and find out who and where is this "you", this "me" that's obvioulsy not here now, and not aware either, right? for all that is aware is this here and now.
Isnt "me" a word? Isnt you a word I hear?
Ans who is this I that hears?
where is it?
What's left when the letter I is seen as just a letter, and dropped?
Nothing but this empty cognizing space.

thoughts of "self-doubt".... arising.... with less glue.... from farther...
To whom do they appear?
moi?
what's left behind three french letters?
well.... just a feeling in the stomach that is just felt, by noone!!

Dear Ilona, thanks for your patience, but i felt an urge from within to write all this down... and, as i was writing it, a release was also felt in the body and mind.

some questions:
am i not using the enquiry in order to avoid feelings?
didnt you find that it smelled like a war zone a little?
and somehow "I got" finally on top of it again?
that's where the label " I control" kicks in, and i'm left believing that I had to be on top,
i needed the mind and the courage, the desire.... the quickness, and all the rest of the weaponry to fight back.
Isnt this ridiculous???
Isnt this just thoughts, false labelling?

can i just stop listening to this?
do you sense that the fear of mind is real?

BACK to "sense of being + labbeling= sense of me"

again, sense of being is not clear.
is this labelling OF the sense of being, or just the activity of labelling you're refering to?

i suppose the activity of labelling + the sense of existence, of being present makes the sense of "me", right?

Well, in this case, the sense of being present is impersonnal.... more like "something is here, must be present in order to feel and see, and even experience doubt"

Where the sense of labelling.... or the activity of labelling might be more personnal.

Wait!
I actually feel like "I exist" (personnal) and I label. I speak. ... when the thought "ahh.... it feels better now" just came up, I noticed that I believed that I was speaking this thought that I made up!
But I havent, right?
There's no I to make up any thought!
It was just the thought "It feels much better now" + the I thought, right????
And that combination gave me the impression that I speak this sentence.
and that I make up a thought..... that there is an entity here thinking this thought.
Whereas you say that thoughts just appear by themselves.
They do!!
But i dont always see this.
I get caught up in identification with it.
Cool....

Is it a sense of self? Or is it impersonal, open sense of aliveness?

so i question where is I, and what's left is open space of impersonnal awareness.
i'm still not too sure about aliveness...
although i sense or feel that the recognition is coming.

Consider an animal, let's say it's a cat. It feels alive and aware, does he need  'me' to sense aliveness?
"Me" as in a personnal sense of existing?
or me as two letters?
for two letters cannot be needed in order to function.
The dog here feels indeed alive and aware.
Can he sense aliveness?
Is he conscious of being alive?

It feels like such an effort for me to naturally sense it!!!



Watch how mind labels everything without a pause, it's just carries on : I hear the sound, I breath, I feel, I sense...
Does it?
I dont hear anything when I pay close attention to it!
I gaze at surroundings, and i dont hear "i see the tree" or "this is the sound of a clock".
Maybe it is going on always except when I want to find it out.
And maybe this I that wants to find it out IS the mind itself.

I notice that I have difficulties to let stuff happen by themselves without doing something with them. For when I wait for a thought to come up, and for "me" to let it out without screwing around with it, or without any agenda, nothing happens.
This noticing is more of a "lucky moment" of catching a thought arise and saying to myself "hey! that thought came out of nowhere!!! So i cannot control any of it"
UNTIL i forget and fall for identification again.

You see?
This is where I feel that my noticing is NOT natural, but forced and biased.... and i call it "on guard".

I hope this is not too much for you.
It is helpful for me to see that I BELIEVE all this.


Stay with it until you notice that there is no 'me' labelling, but labelling is happening and most common label is 'I' or 'me'. Just a word preceding other words.

Is labelling believing?
Because when i pay attention, there's no labelling, like no words are spoken.
there was a minute ago... I started to sing (in truth, a song came out of my mouth), and when I looked at it... like in understanding it... almost on purpose... I heard a subtle "I sing".
Ahh!
So there is no I singing, just singing happening.
I get that.
But it almost feels like I ask the mind to label.
Well, we'll see, because i'm not sure.

So i noticed staring at the bottle of water, and a sense/feeling of wondering if we should drink or not. The words were not that obvious.... more like a movement of feeling. So when I make a point of speaking, or hearing the words on the feelings that it gets clearer. But it feels like a little forced by "me"..... hence the sense of doership and control.
Like my help is needed, I must do something to MAKE AWAKENING HAPPEN.... or actually, to make THINGS happen.

I understand it's the illusion.
Please let's see through this and be FREE of this.

Can you see the difference between experiencing feelings and sensations and experience of mind labbeling all that? It's ALL going on by itself. No driver anywhere. 

Ah ah! Sweet way to be brought through the processing...
It's not the same thing, but I can sense already that the sensations and feelings just happen by themselves, sometimes caused by thinking.
And I'm willing to see that I am not in charge of thinking or labelling, and that it happens by itself, with no driver.

You know my dear, I'm sure I've seen that so many times before, but it's good that i show you how i forget everything.... how the mind forgets stuff, and it feels like I'm back to the bottom of the ladder again... having to work my way up.

Waow! a LOT of I and me there!!!

Can you see that there is no one looking, but looking is just happening and there is no you seeing, but seeing just is. 

YES I CAN!!!!
amazing!


Exhausted but happy.

MUCH LOVE

   
Wow, L, that was some hardcore processing. 

Good stuff.  Very good.


Now take a break, go outside, breath some fresh air and let it all sink in. Especially the last bit that seeing just is.

While outside, watch nature, see how everything is wiggling, moving, notice the totality of all that is. Notice that the body is just as part of that totality as everything else.  Not separate from environment, not special either. 

Don't make it difficult. Simplify.
Truth is simple, simplest thing ever. Confusion/illusion is complicated.

The sense 'I exist', awareness, is that which is always here now. Impersonal. Spacious. Look there, it's simple. Whatever you call it is just a label.



Write what you notice that is obvious.
Is there a manager that controls what is?


With love.

   
Hi Ilona.

thank you for the precious help.
as you noticed, this ends with tiredness...
feelings of resistance are still hanging around.
the cool thing is that I treat them as the protection they are.
i sense that they are protecting a sense of "me" that they "believe" i am,
when in truth "they" obviously dont know and cannot know what i am.
So i easily enquire what's behind the protection, and what or who is being protected...
to find noone.
empty space.

i also enquire into the label "me" or "I", to find that no-thing is left there but empty awareness.

So, even if i feel it was not a very successful seeing outside, i went out, breathed, and looked.
I saw that looking just is, happens by it self.
I didnt get very clear on the totality being one thing....
with each part of it, including my body, were just doing their thing,
like i saw it clearly this morning.

Maybe we'll do that again tomorrow.
I would love to be simple and easy with this obviousness.
because i know it is.

at least we've uncovered some obstacles.

I'm going to sleep now.

i love you.
thank you.

   
I love you too, L.
Sleep well and we will speak tomorrow.
:)

   
Good morning dear

I slept a lot!!! :-)
Upon waking I started to toss around the idea that all I know is belief.
And I saw that it was actually the case.
I also saw that this is the mind's knowledge we re talking about.
All second-hand unsure stuff.
So all that the mind (me) knows is obviously coming with doubt. The doubting feature of the mind is necessary ingredient to all belief based knowledge.
Asking if I'm sure 100% is a cool way to stop the mind and the search for a moment.

I also saw that I enjoy of course the state of no-mind no-search that has been induced (I believed!!) by this enquiry...by the realisation that all "I" know is beliefs.
So the next thing the mind does (Labelled 'i do) is to try hard to remember that all knowledge is belief...so that I will feel again the quiet peace of no-mind.
But I saw that no-mind is not a state per say.
It is always present as just seeing, impersonal and free of beliefs or labels... free of me or even I.
So it is not something that needs to be remembered... because  remembering is a mind feature, and a mind feature won't get to no-mind... won't help me feel the peace that is here always.
Also, I saw that everytime I feel agitation, it means that I am driven by a belief. And mostly by the belief that I am separate from peace... and that seeing must be, can be attained or realised, and of course believing this leads to search in the mind, protecting the mind as me to get me there.
Cool.

Shall we continue ?

I m all ears ;-)

Love,
L
I:   
Awesome! You see now that no belief is true and for first time really you can use your own brain. This is such an important discovery.

Think for yourself, that was how I started...

So tell me now, is there a self in any shape or form in reality? Was it ever?

What is self, how does it work?

What is L? Hint- look at the character L.

Looking forward to your email. :))
 
Think for yourself, that was how I started...

So tell me now, is there a self in any shape or form in reality? Was it ever?

No there isnt.
right now, which is the only moment that is, there is noone here but seeing and typing and knowing that this is typing.
Ilona, that certainty that flows now from me I know is coming from myself, my real self.
i also see that what is typing now is doubt, or belief in smaller me.
seeing that me is a label...
back in the incredible... un-believ-able obviousness that I exist as this seeing that is pure.

no there is no self in real life, as you say.
there are forms and shapes and experiencing, but no someone except I... or awareness.

What is self, how does it work?

a supposition, a bunch of beliefs put together as cluster.
a point of view that is supposed.
it works by not being seen as a lifeless belief.
and when it is not seen by Seeing that it is just some kind of a filter, well, then Seeing seems to forget and take itself for that filter....
for a someone, a self, a person.

What is L? Hint- look at the character L.
The character L is that cluster of memories, experiences, souvenirs, likes and dislikes based on "his" story.
A noun, a word, a name....
just like "me", it is fictitious.
there is no L right now.
or we could say that there is no America, for example.
There is a continent and belief on top, or label, right?

so the character L is the hero of this dream I seem to be stuck with everymorning upon awakening.

the stuckness to this character and story is the lack of looking at the fact that I am not a belief, but the ever present seeing that is present and seeing all this.
Isnt the question, then "who do i take myself to be?"

Looking forward to your email. :))

i 'm happy to give you this email.... all together with the smell of "but's" that are used to lingering around this clarity.

love
L

Hi Ilona,
i cant wait to have your answer.
i mean , i feel impatient...
i see that there is impatience, wanting to hide it by sounding spiritual,
i see that the mind is labelling this feeling of lack (another label)
i see that it actually goes round and round to find and secure a cause to the sensation/feeling.

i've been looking at the way things are happening and working.
energies are felt
mind (thoughts) is labelling... which gives a feeling of understanding, of security,
and that IS the controler !!!
just a feeling, a sense of securing knowledge through labelling and then classifying.

who wants to understand?
me?
not true!
i mean a label is wanting.... not true!!!
nobody is wanting anything.

movements of grasping are happening.


the suffering comes when I believe I am the one wanting to understanding, right?


lots of love.
thank you to allow me to write as I feel....
and thus to TRUST my seeing.


L! This is IT. What you see is what is. Not through labels, but directly. I'm really happy for you and i like how you describe it- unbelievable obviousness.

So my next question is:
How does it feel to be liberated?


And a side note. Real self? Can you look for other words here, cause calling IT self only confuses everyone.
Try to find something else to label. That's how people are hooked on looking for real self, when there isn't any.

I, awareness- this also needs to be clarified. Expand on that. Is there an I? Is awareness personal?

...............................
Hahaha!
Impatience is quite interesting at this moment, feeling rush and wanting to get over with it :) burning away in rapid fire.  Burn, baby, burn.

Yes, brain is processing. Keep focus on truth, pay attention to the obvious, that alone has great power to cut through.

Let's talk about programming and conditioning of a human. How does it work? Look at brain with the brain. What is being noticed?

Hi Ilona

How does it feel to be liberated?

resting.

i must write down that the attraction to doubting is showing up.
when you wrote what i wrote, "Unbelievable awareness", mind says "well, you saw this,
but where is it now?" and that would tend to use the mind to search for unbelievable awareness.... with the sense of unsecurity that is inherent in all the mind has to say.

Woaw!
when i try to write about doubts, the typing is unsure, it goes slowly.... then in the sentence, certainty is picking up the line, and the rest is ultra clear and typing is so fast!!
how does that feel?
GREAT!!!

Real self? Can you look for other words here, cause calling IT self only confuses everyone.
Try to find something else to label. That's how people are hooked on looking for real self, when there isn't any.

Are you saying that the labels are the only thing that cause confusion???
YES....
and then NO, it's the holding to them that's causing the pain and confusion, right?
the labels will always be confused, right?
doubt comes hand in hand with labelling, right?
that 's what I SAW.

So, I could call it THAT which knows and sees

Is there an I? Is awareness personal?

There is no I.
(I just saw this and that's it! i say! :-))

how do i know if awareness, that which knows and sees, is personnal?
right now, i dont know anything about all this!!!
but i'm freeking happy about not knowing!!!

it seems that awareness is personal...
but awareness cannot be personnal.
first, there is no person!!!
second, there is no limits to this thing THAT which sees and knows.
third, when I see that it imprignates everyuthing everywhere, "in front of" my body...
and when i see that my body is also in it, and when i see that i'm not separate from THAT,
well, i conclude that it isnot personal.

DEAREST ILONA,
would you feel and tell me when it is only intellectual?
or when it is listening to the doubting feature of labelling/understanding?

i kind of go from clear to doubt quite quickly.
wait!!!
do i know that for sure?
no.

i love you
I:   
Let's talk about programming and conditioning of a human. How does it work? Look at brain with the brain. What is being noticed?

brain labels everything and pulls its sense of security from it, from its own labelling.
so sense of security is equivalent to past non-changing state of "staying.

when you say look at brain with brain.... i dont get it.... do you mean look at brain?
how can i lookk at brain?

anyway, when i look at the idea of programming, then the brain fires informations, what it knows on the idea...
if the road is clear of feelings that are labelled (by the same brain) as needing to take care of, or "danger".
what brain knows on the idea of programming is: past experiences that have been labelled. Labelling is coming from outside source, obviously, because labels are made of langage. And langage is only learnt later....

langage is learnt at home, through the famlily's conditionnings.
within it the emotions and feelings that are associated with it.
right now, the brain slows down.... a passage of not sure.....

all that is being looked, watched.
by whom?
i dont know.

"i dont know" is also a label, right?
is there a feeling of unsure.... no labels coming... and then the labelling shoots "I dont know"?
i guess it happens like that.
and all I is is part of the labelling.

brain, as i watched your link, is always looking for securing the sense of existing as me.
but this is not direct looking, although it is very close to what i wrote above.
and what i wrote above came from my own observing.
So brain is always activated by worry?
worry that there is no self? noone present to be here?
does the brain know the name tag is only this?
and does it hide and protect this from being seen?
is it afraid to be discovered? is it labelling a sense of shame and guilt because of this fraud it knows about?

that cannot be, right?
the brain cannot know anything, other that past information with which conditionning of survival and pleasure toss around.?

that is what we call understanding... but it isnt clarity, nor seeing!!
it is brain tossing around with conditionning... with sights and smells and tastes and feelings and emotions labelled


Awesome.

Let's compare brain to computer processor. What do you see?

Look at beliefs as programs.

It's fun to look at things with fresh look. Love reading what you find. Give me some more!
Love you!!

Where is it intellectual and where is seeing? It's a play of both. Now when there is no one behind thought play is fee flowing.
Mind did not disappear, just attachment got a huge hall in it. For a while here mind was like the best amusement park. It's exploration of ideas, flashes of insights, seeing life without through different lens.

You can really sharpen the mind here, by starting a blog and writing all you see as you see for everyone's benefit. Yours most of all. You have a great peace of equipment here, an amazing tool, that I'd to be loved and used.
Doubt is your friend. It's showing that you don't take anything without checking it first. Honour it. :)

 I'm really pleased to meet you.

   
I love your words!!

Your idea of opening a blog is very good, but i feel it's already the case.

your words give me more and more trust in my own seeing.
for some reason that i dont know, a wave of fear and doubt came along about 5 years ago, and even if the clarity, the opening was always here, the resistance was too hard to deal with.
I guess everything has a purpose.

When you say that i have a great tool, you're talking about the mind, the brain, right?
it's great indeed to see it this way, as a tool, without attachment as me.
and I agree, some amazing stuff can come out of it.

You know, when I first got some experiences of light, 7 years ago, i was SO amazed at the genius that was coming out of me, of my brain!!!
I mean amazing!
I was "receiving" not just flashes, but sometimes full minutes of pure potentiality, totally electrifying my whole system.
Any subject I would put my interest on would just light up and reveal so much!!!
I didnt know what to think or make of this.
Just that the joy and the love that comes with it enlightened my whole world.
Clarity about truth... oneness.... Plan.... light....love....mathematics, physics, litterature... I mean, you name it!!

I suppose that identification was still running... at least i remember times where I could not let go of wanting stuff, although I saw the Love that was loving and guiding all of my moves.
Maybe I got scared of so much power...
i dont know.

But anyhow, it's been a crazy week, and all is conspiring again to help me see and trust and let go of listening to the voice of doubt as me, once and for all.
See, when I started to write these last words, the typing got faster, the level of energy as well.... i'm sure you're familiar with what i write you tonight.

Looking at the brain... looking at all my moves as brain programming has been great and wonderful. It creates the space of disidentification from mind, that comes with high energy... with high and a speed up of hightened clarity.... a state that I know already.

Once the energy gets a little lower (after eating for example), the brain starts to label this as trouble and starts to panic a little.... from a little to a lot.
Looking at this this way, as the brain's conditionning to help, to protect me, is really cool. Cause i find myself in a much more accepting position.
I let all things be as they are.
I know this IS the way, more than the highs, and lows, of heightened levels of consciousness.

So freedom from "me" is truly what drives me today.
Seeing my true nature has been a problem, because the brain tries to find it.
Since it doesnt, it goes for agitation.... and fear and doubt are the outcomes.... followed by the other programms very romantic, like guilt and hate.
Since i saw already how the whole perception varies with states of feelings and mind, it looks like the whole world goes up and down, light to dark, quick!

I write to you all this because it comes out this way.

I love your advice on doubt and fear, honouring them.
There is still here the idea, the belief that when the energies are not high in clarity, there's a problem. I cant find a solution to what's up. But isnt this the problem????
Trying to find a solution with the brain?
And relying on it to get me back to peace or love?

After this morning's seeing, I know that the brain-mind-thinking-searching CANNOT bring me peace and love and joy.
Peace and love and joy are before all this, in the seeing itself.

Right now, how are the feelings?
a little low, due to eating i guess.... or back in warmth after cold.... anyway, it is not as high.
The brain is running a little uneasiness, which tends to trigger judging and searching for solutions.

I can just let it be that way...
but i feel that i still rely on my brain to help me out.

Your words are so very welcomed here

   
I just say a thank you prayer to God, and i feel the love again....
thank you Ilona.

let's get rid of falsity, allright?

i love you,
L
Thank you.
<3

So what was that trigger that made seeing happen? Can you describe what happened? what was most instrumental for you?

I do take in all that you write, it really flows. Can you send me the link to your website? :) very interesting.

Also can you tell how did you found me? Just curious.


Much love :)
   
Yeah, <3!!

What was the trigger?
I'm not sure.
I'd say it's a mixture of many things.
Among them, a huge desire for liberation.... that was there since always!

How did i find you?
My eyes got specially attracted by your name on the headless group.
I found funny but unintersting what was going on between you guys, but still my eyes were sticking to you.
The next day, same thing.
So i checked out your website.... and started to read your processing there.
And this was some days ago.
That kept me up all night, then the next day and also the next day and night.
So i went ahead and wrote to you directly.

my website is www.laurentelielevy.com
it's called "The teachings of Spirit" where I 've been sharing either received messages by my friend... and audios of my weekly teachings (the latest ones will be found on the "non-duality" category).

But you are right with the idea of the blog!!
now that i thought of it, I could just have a blog where i just share my stuff, my reflexions, and it doesnt have to be formated...

It goes quite well with this coming wave of ALLOWING me to be free and flowing whatever comes freely, from me (and not as always hiding under some protective shield of some kind)

although I felt a big smile at your question how does it feel to be liberated", I still dont feel liberated.
   
i will go to sleep now.
i wish we continue tomorrow, if you feel you can still help me.
love, and big gratitude for you,
L
   

although I felt a big smile at your question how does it feel to be liberated", I still dont feel liberated.

How do you imagine you would feel? What do you expect? There is no booom, no nothing, just drop of belief.

So is there a self?
Can you believe that i is an entity again?
Was there ever a manager inside L's body making stuff happen?

Look at this again and tell me, has liberation happened?


Yes, your email got me smiling too.  Much love!

   
hello and good morning my dear!!
didnt sleep a lot, and as you say, that's what awakening does!
woke up with some energies....
saw the habitual brain labeling and especially the agitation to find a solution.
there's identification here with the game of fixing stuff.
i just remembered what you wrote yesterday.... where the brain/mind use to be a game
you loved to play.... staying in thoughts, getting flashes of insights...
i love to see that i'm accepting all this, as i understand and acknowledge what's happening.
As i'm making a diffrence between seeing and thinking.
And could you get back on allowing seeing and thinking to play together?
Isnt seeing above, or detached completely from thinking?
What did you mean?
i have the idea that one can be always totally aware of Pure Awareness, true nature, pure seeing.... while playing around, if he wants, with the brain.... with thinking, playing at the game of understanding... of tossing around with conceptual stuff.
Actually, I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!
It's like bringing down to the earth.... to this level of vibration.... a higher and purer light of knowledge.
Maybe that's also what you meant by the great tool i had....

Ahah!!
I see you just wrote!!!

great i'll jump off to read now.
Love and gratitude
   
How do you imagine you would feel? What do you expect? There is no booom, no nothing, just drop of belief.

I imagine I would have this really large vision... immersed in pure awareness... trnsparent potentiality of just seeing.... feeling very disconnected from all and at the same time in love with all.
i also imagine that there would be a definite knowing, for sure, that I am not a label, and that the false identity-self would no longer be a problem.
I also imagine that this will come with some heavy certainty and a joy that is always present.... at least a sense of permanent joy.

I sense that the belief that all should be light and magic has gone away a little... has detached.... because this is the type of things I lived and saw 7 years ago. I've been understanding more that liberation was about peace, more than boooms, and that liberation is here right now, even if i dont see it.
So by dropping the identification in the point of view called "I", i would sink easily into quiet Being and stuff.....

As for the transforming of matter in sight, i guess this could be a game to play with the Gods, later on ;-))

There is a lot of imaginings in what i wrote, and your input will be so appreciated.

AS i'm reading again what i wrote, well, i'm not that far actually.
The first point is imagination and holding on to this.
I guess it will happen or not...
For the second, there is no self, so how can it be a problem? and i know that i am not a label!
for the third, i guess that this experience of joy comes and goes, but i'm not too certain i want to let go of this as a belief...
well, i'm willing to now!

So is there a self?
Can you believe that i is an entity again?
Was there ever a manager inside L's body making stuff happen?
No there isn't.

No, I is not anything real, anything palpable indeed.
There is no I except in thought, as a notion, a label.
The seeing that the brain labels with I is really working!!!! ;-)


i dont know.
the obvious intellectual answer is NO, there wasnt any manager here, inside the body of L.
Making stuff happen.
But when I look, with all I saw, there cannot be any!!
I thought that something has to be here managing the whole thing.
Making the heart beat, the hair grow....
but also making the moves, prefering this to that, wanting to screw up, keeping the Holy Spirit 's guidance, or God's guidance (or higher script) away, refusing control from parents or other authority, choosing food... at least choosing to choose food or not, choosing to let go of choice (please answer to this one)....
but i see that there is noone....
for that one is more like a program, a running program of conditionn ing and beliefs.
And if the script is a higher script.... more in tune with love and oneness.... it is still an automatic ideas shooter with noone listening or not!

Do i believe in a chooser position inside here?
yes, still.
But i may be wrong, because there is no "I" anywhere but in labels.
I see i've been holding on to the position of doubter for a while.
That might have given me the "insurrance" of existing as separate, as a self.

I can also see a belief that "i" exist as a more invisible position in another realm that is another dimension or something....
it's true that this is blurry and supposed.
Right here, right now, there is indeed nothing but all that is happening in this realm.
with no "I" to be found.

And this seeing doesnt make me dead.
 whatever me i've always been.

nothing changes.
but the seeing sees that there 's no entity choosing anything.

a slight dreaming back to the brain and the land of ideas get me a little numbed... trying to look for a "me", a position, a seat on which I sit...
and i didnt find anything.

In that case, what the hell am I?
and where the hell am I?
and who's choosing?

Love
L
   
In that case, what the hell am I?
and where the hell am I?
and who's choosing?

Just noticing, seeing, seeing and knowing, and knowing that seeing is seeing. :-)

Here, and everywhere... !!
wait! that's where i get caught up! imagination, expectaing this enlarged vision, seeing... something that is not here now. Seeing me everywhere. So fear and doubt are nicely protecting me from that dangerous imagined elargement of vision...
Bullshit.
No me needs to be protected from an imagined new state of vision.

Noone is choosing.
   
I see that you have graduated! :)

You are processing stuff that comes up with lightness and certainty. I love that. :)

There is a difference between real and imagined. Real is here, now, no-w-here, it just is.
Imagined is like you say 'another realm' where fairies and dragons and batman lives and no one ever dies. Same with the self. Imagined. Not real, never was here, only in the imagination.

Can you just look closer at what is real and what isn't, to clarify that. :)

What is real?
   
dog is real, here, now.
petting him is real, here now.
seeing him is real here now.
labelling is real, here and now.
feeling of sadness is real.... well, isn't that just labelling and energy?
....
by the way, when i look at "dog" from a close, i see the label, made of langage...
and that way, easy to see that it is meaningless piece of langage....
when i get there, the whole experience vanishes too!!!
I use to love deconstructing experience this way, finding myself in I DONT KNOW land.
...
back to the exercice.
hands writing on this key pad is real.
thinking a bit is real too.

you didnt ask about false, but "I write" is false, like robin hood.
writing is real and happening.

noise in the kitchen is real.
labelling it, or "understanding" or assuming it is my friend with the dishes.... is real?
isnt that imagination.
In that case, imagining is real, happening here and now.

to me is not real.

it's a little edgy... cause labels about all that's around are not that real in them selves,
just labels, empty in truth.

feel free to comment here please.

"what i'm going to do today?" is real as a question happening now and here.
the content is lala land.
especially the character, fictitious.
"me" is supposed to exist.

doubting is also real.
i doubt is not.
fearing is real.... an energy felt.
again, the labelling is not correct ... but we could say that energy and labelling is real.!!
feels better.

to whom?
to unreal!
just feels better....!

   
saying I is not real feels different than I am not real.
but in I is not real, there could be still identification to an observer, personnal.
and in I am not real, it feels more like nhilism or suicide

Cool.
Yes of course the experience is real, world is real and all within, thoughts are real, but not the content. :) words are only pointers, reflections, not reality itself.

The expectation that once liberation happens all beliefs will fall is just that, expectation.  It takes time to process all that used to be attached to the I.

Good place to start is looking at most precious beliefs close to the heart, ones that are 'not to be doubted'

Can you look and see if you can find any ideas that you would rather keep then let go? Call up resistance and see if it takes you there.

What do you resist at the moment?
Just dig a bit deeper. You are doing so great I'm getting addicted you your emails. :)
I see that this is gonna be great for my blog, let me know if it's ok with you to put it up and you want me to change you name there. 
   
Ok then:

Can you look and see if you can find any ideas that you would rather keep then let go? Call up resistance and see if it takes you there.

What do you resist at the moment?

At this moment, I resist going deeper and look for beliefs!!
So i must believe that looking inside is difficult and dangerous.... (this is imagined answer,
something I read and agree with)

I also seem to hold on to the idea that I'm bad, not good enough.
Throughout this processing with you, dear Ilona, i saw from a close how much I hold on to doubt! To not knowing by myself....
not wanting to let go that I dont have all the answer inside....
not wanting to let go that the others know better.
... which sounds like fear of power, of being powerful.
(Would be cool to look at what is power for "me".)

This has started to crumble though.

I also hold a recurrent belief that being tired, or low in energy is not good, as in dangerous.
When i look there, it feels like i believe the world is a danger, and I must defend and protect my self....
how? mostly by being sharp and quick with my thinking, with remembering, for example.
But that has also started to crumble... seeing that remembering will not get me to happiness.
Oh! The "on-guard" attitude is as well well kept in the inner world.
I believe that there are dangerous forces in my mind....

But tell me, with the belief in "I", the central caracter seen as non-existent, all of these should quite easily fall off I believe.
Especially the guilt due to the "I'm bad" one, that is so present in everyone's mind.
It is the basic limitation that goes together with believing we're separate (say the teachings)

So, to make it shorter, I hold on to: negative energies and tiredness are not good. So I fear them (protect against). because I must be always on top of things, thoughts and all that comes.

Also, I hold on to the doubter, which gives me a sense of existing as "small and nice", and separate too. I see also that these beliefs in doubt or guilt protect the idea of power!!! The doubter suffers from the doubt but rejoice at being a chooser, one who is in control.

Again, if i see that there's noone behind any of them, that should make it easier I'm sure.
It's like saying: I'm ok with it, God, your dice if you want to clear that up!

That's what's coming for now.

About the name, of course you can use our dialogues. I feel better with L and also maybe you could take the last more "personal" stuff out.... story of awakening for example.(that is one email think)



   
What is power? Good question L. What is behind power?

Can you describe what is this 'liberation' as you see it now and how does it feel to be liberated?

I appreciate our dialog so much, it's a great example of processing what comes after. Love you man!
   


   
What is power? Good question L. What is behind power?

Nothing clearly coming out yet. Will come back to it.

Wait! Funny how this brain works!! Now that the need to find the answer has been let go, the idea of control started to tingle...
So power would mean control, obviously. Great. Cause now I see the trick...the funny and ultimate trick behind fear of power...fear of control. And fear of control is a joke, isn't it, for a label! :-)
Is there power in the brain for the notion of a separate self? In truth none.
Then we could speak of the power of belief... the energy of conviction that comes with attachment to I. For there is the juice... the power of attention, or the power of refusal to see. That power is more secondary it seems, because it's energetical..., already in the realm of objects. And yet, it seems to be linked directly to the intensity of belief.
Seeing clearly over and over again that there is noone believing anything but just thoughts being listened to by noone feels like the ultimate belief killer!!!!
In fact, the true power, even in the seeming manifested, is surrender!!! Total acceptance is the power of ALLNESS!!! And that is slightly more juicy than the ideas of denial.... again, to noone! Ah ah ah!

I ll get back to the rest of the question soon... but I can sense it's going to  be fun... or about fun and lightness!

Loving you always my love!

.......................................

Releasing The Sufferer

D:
I'll try and give you the readers digest version:

I'm in the midst of an enormous 'life' drama. I'm 50 yrs old & last April my husband and I started reading Jed McKenna, had been following
this 'train' for years but he really brought it home for us. Then, out of nowhere, the husband tells me he has to go into this 'dark place' alone and needed me to move on- move out. So I'm trying to make sense of this drama, the movers just delivered my stuff this morning so I have lots of time to think while I try and rebuild, well, everything.
Darren tells me you're the one to talk to. Can you guide me through this?

I:

Hi D.

Thank you so much for writing. It is my pleasure to assist and help you through seeing the illusion.

I see you read Jed and deconstruction has started. I read his books and indeed it brought a lot of darkness. I was doing autholysis and sometimes it felt horrible.

There is no need for that. We can look at the centre of illusion, knock down the core, take out the root and the rest unfolds naturally.

So I will be asking you some questions and all you need to do is answer them with 100% honesty what feels true.

Deal?

So let's look at where you are at the moment.
There is no separate self at all in real life, is it true?

D:

Thank you. I believe that is true and see it with clarity at times but
50% of the time I find myself sucked in to the drama of the shock &
heartbreak of my situation. Making it "stick" seems impossible when
I'm still feeling like I have to think about and control the basics-
roof over head, food in the cabinets, money, change of address card,
unpacking. A thousand little things that have to be done and I try to
surrender with the understanding that it will, in fact, get done.

I will give you 100% honesty and am excited about the process which
does not involve autolysis- I tried that for a month before this turn
of events and didn't feel I was getting anywhere.

I:

Great! Let's start!
As Jed says, no belief is true, so from now in please answer with what feels true, not what you believe. We need to go past belief and test everything.

Ok, so tell me, when you look at this "there is no self at all in real life” what happens inside? Is there fear, resistance, uneasiness, doubt, can you identify the feeling?

D:

I recognize a little uneasiness/fear but also some relief. During the times when I can really see it clearly, all I feel is relief. Like the pressure is off and it almost feels like joy. But I can't stay there.

I:

Next thing we look at resistance itself.

As there are many beliefs in the system, some if them conflict and fight with each other. So resistance rises as a result of conflict inside.

Yes, you can feel it in the body and it's an unpleasant feeling. There is fear involved and we will work through that.

Fear is a security system. It keeps the body safe, so you don’t jump of buildings and so on. It protects something and it works as perfect mechanism. Can you appreciate the fear itself?

Now, if there is truly no self at all, then it's nothing to protect, right? Only illusion.

Can you look at the possibility, that there is no self at all again, notice the fear identify it and ask it to come closer, just observe it. Don't go into detail of fear, but look at it as a phenomenon itself. You can ask it to reveal its wisdom. Just stay with it for a little while and see what happens.

You can close your eyes and let that fear be there, sit with it, look at how perfect it guards something. Honour it. It sounds strange, but do it.

Then look, what is behind the fear? Is there anything at all? What do you find?

D:

It's funny you mention that fear. I've been thinking about that part a lot lately. To be perfectly honest, I've toyed with the idea of suicide quite a bit these past few weeks even written letters to my loved ones asking for their forgiveness (won't be sending them) but
pray for death daily. So I have wondered about this fear and where it comes from since I sincerely hope to die. I'll think on this for a little while and let you know what I'm able to come up with.
Thank you.

I:

You don't need to die,. What 'dies' is illusion. It may feel like the end of the world, but it's only the end for imaginary self. Santa is not real too and when you found that out, Santa did not die, just belief of it being real fell.

I know how you feel, as after Jed's books I too waned to die. It was horrible time, but it will pass.

Facing fear itself is not gonna kill you, it's just gonna reveal what fear is, not as much the content as the mechanism itself.

We don't have to be scared of fear. Fear is here to protect. It feels dark and solid. But it's only fear. As they say- False Evidence Appearing Real.

Just bring it closer and look behind, you will be surprised.

Much much love.

D:

I've spent some time with that fear and looked at it closely. What I find is that it's not a fear of "death" at all but a fear of meaninglessness. That what I have seen as "my life" may have no value, purpose, has been for nothing. That the special and unique "me" never was and that creates the physical and emotional feeling of fear. When i look closer, i don't see. Is this ego?

PS I've wondered about the character Julie from Jed's first book and about the scene at the cafe when they meet after she's gone through the process. She had to leave, crying, before she could come back and sit down. I know it's fiction but this never made sense to me. If she was truly "gone" why was she crying?

I:

I don't remember the scene very well as I read it a year ago. Let's leave it for a bit and we can come back to it later.

Meaninglessness. Yes, life has no meaning. It just is. It's the mind that is always looking for meaning and creating it so that the "self" could feel better. You can say that meaning of life is life itself.

But what is a meaning of flower? Does it need to have a meaning to exist? Every flower is unique, even if you have blossoms on the same branch, they are each individual and unique. That uniqueness does not disappear. Only specialness does.

We are not special at all. Only thoughts about how important is to be special and keep it at all cost are here.

Ego does not exist. It's a story.

What is here is life going on plus labelling of the mind. Which is also going on by itself. The illusion is that it is "me" thinking.

But "me" does not exist in reality.

Can you look here now and tell me if it's true.

D:

I can say that is true. I see the truth of it more every day. The process seems to have a life of its own and "I'm" just watching it unfold but its two steps forward and one step back. I've enjoyed reading your blogspot with the tips and other people's experiences. I began writing in a journal back in April but haven't in the last several weeks. This process is painful for me, or maybe it's my life circumstances. I've begun to wonder if all this is happening for the reason of awakening. Is there a "Grand Design" or a single intelligence behind life's living?
I have another question:

I can see that life is living itself and "I" is an illusion, but whenever I think about the suffering that my husband has caused me I can't seem to fit that in with the "everything is as it should be" model. I feel angry and hurt and it pulls me back into "me".

I:

Yes, D, life is living itself. And all is happening for a reason. It may take some serious pain for some to wake up. But it's not necessary.

Ok, next step we examine thoughts.

Can you close your eyes after reading this and find in there something that always is present. That sense of beingness. Am.

Notice the space, notice thoughts appearing and disappearing. Where do they come from? Can you control them? Can you stop a thought in middle?

Can you see how every event in awareness, be it sensation, sound, feeling is labelled by the mind.

Mind is a labelling machine. It immediately translates what's going on in words. Plus, when nothing is going on mind goes into past and future and chats constantly.

Can you get back to me with what you find here.

D:

I can sense the beingness. I've noticed the thoughts and wonder if these thoughts come from the same place as in a deer, deciding which direction to walk, or a bird making "decisions" about what step to take, where to fly. Are our thoughts from the same One? Only more complicated?
I see how this mind labels and categorizes. I've wondered about how past and future are constantly a part of the inner narration. Are we all insane as Tolle says?

I've been up all night. I don't know how much longer I can keep this up. I need some relief, to stop thinking about it or to find just an ounce of joy somewhere. My mind and body feel so weak and broken down.
Thank you for being here.

I:

Yes D, it has that effect on the body. No sleep, no wanting to eat, intense burning.

It will pass.

Thoughts come and go from nothing. Void if you like.

I is also just a thought. It has no power, no control, it can not think. It's just a thought like deer, or tree, or whatever.

When you look at thoughts, notice that some thoughts refer to something that is real- tree, table, window, hand.

But not all thoughts refer to real things.

Look at the thought 'i'. Is there an I in the room?

Can you see that I is just a label referring to thoughts about I, nothing else. And it appears and disappears effortlessly. It has no control at all.

Can you see that?

I'm here for you, we will work this out, it's not much left.

Seeing is happening already, without a seer, all is just flowing effortlessly, can you notice that.

There is no you to notice it either, just noticing. Happening. " I notice" is just a label of experience.

Write what is being seen in the room at the moment.

D:

What is being seen in the room at the moment:
Lots of boxes that need unpacking and misc chaos. Quiet. Intense emptiness. And this body typing on the iPad.

I:

Nice, I'd like iPad ;)

How is the typing process going. Look there, what happens there. In detail, please.

D:

Thought arises and fingers type. I watched the video you had posted on your site and was amazed about the 6 seconds that it takes for brain to inform mind. All very confusing in this context.

I feel like a puppet. Acting on thought that is not mine. I read one time about the artist, author, songwriter being nothing but like a limb of the one. You can't be prideful of a hand that paints a nice picture or a pen that writes a good story. Is this right?

I:

Yes, it's right.

I came to see that I'm not an artist, just a brush. How can a brush be proud? There is no one to be proud.

There is no you to feel as a puppet.

Of course thought is not yours, there is no you at all to own anything.

So look: thought arises, fingers type, all this is happening by itself, how can there be a director?

There is no you to see through.

It's just looking through happening by itself. Brain is resolving the conflict by itself.

What is being noticed?

D:

I think I'm there -only there is something that wants to hold on. Maybe fear, relinquishing control but I'm beginning to sense that there was never any control by "me" to begin with.
More time I think.

I:

Great!!!

Seeing is happening!
Feeling of holding on is happening, but there is no you to hold on, just feeling arising. + labelling happening.

No, there never was any control by 'you'.

Like there never was a Santa!

What's happening?

D:

Hoping that there would be some relief with seeing. No me but still much pain. How can this be? How can this suffering continue. How can this D continue life?

I:

Tell me, please, what is D

D:

Nothing. A paintbrush. A costume. An expression of a thought. No more than a tree or a stone.
That's why there's no understanding of why it continues to cry. Shouldn't there be some disconnection from this emotion?

I:

look from slightly different angle:

There is a story playing out, a story, where D is a main character. Can you see her? Can you see how beautiful she is? Can you appreciate D? I appreciate D very much. <3

There is no driver, but there is the story, a real story. Real fiction. D is here now, look..

The suffering is part of story. As stories go, you never know what's round the corner.

Who is suffering? Is there a sufferer?

D:

Thank you for your help and your kindness. You are a lovely expression.

I:

Thank you D for looking.

Let's talk tomorrow a bit more, rest now.

…………………………………….

Hi D
How is world looking today?
Please write to me.

D:

Much better. Much. I will check in with you tomorrow.
Thank you

I:

Thank you!
Smiling now.

Big hug

…………………………..

I: Could you answer me these questions, so I know precisely where you are.

1) Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

2) Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

3) How does it feel to be liberated?

Thank you. :)

D:

I don't know anything right now.
There's too much in my head. Just dealing with the details and drama of what's going on in this life are overwhelming. I made an appt with a therapist for this afternoon to help me with the emotional mess. I won't be mentioning the "no self" business to him, but I'm on the verge of losing my sanity.
Thanks for staying with me. I'll keep in touch.

I:

Let whatever comes up be ok...

Just watch it pass by. Nothing is here to stay, all impermanent... The overwhelming feelings are not permanent, this too shall pass.

It is a huge shock to belief system, yes, and all beliefs that have no where to attach are starting to fall. Hold on to nothing. Holding on only creates suffering. Let it all melt away. Release... Even holding in to your sanity, it's all just a concept. These are just thoughts passing by. There is no I to be sane or insane.

Good that you are seeing a therapist. He may help you to calm down... Please keep me updated. Let me know if I can help you with anything at all.

Lots of love.

D:

Thank you so much for this- "let whatever comes up be ok".
"Holding on only creates suffering- Release"
The very words I needed to hear. I am releasing.
I've read this email 6 times.
I should be seeing you once a week ;)

You are a such a gift.
Love,

I:

After you done, you won't have to see anyone.
:)

How was you therapist yesterday?

Let's give it some time to settle and we carry on. Write to me when you are ready.

D:

Ilona,
I think the train wreak portion of the program is over ;)
The seeing is happening and the me is disappearing (has disappeared?). The suffering I was (am) going through feels more & more like just suffering, but not to a 'me'. All day today I "saw" it, recognized IT. It's hard to explain, but a definite shift has occurred. I was awareness for a majority of the day. But I've thought of a couple of questions:

When you are involved in an experience, and your mind is on whatever is happening, brain work you could say, is there some part of "you" that forgets that you don't exist? Or do you always "think" about not being?

Another question: When I switch the channel on the radio without thinking and it surprises me because I had not thought to do it, who was surprised?
Here's where I feel I am today:
#1 Is there a you? There doesn't appear to be a me. I am curious how you will answer my question about who was surprised by the radio- my sense is that the answer is the mind which thinks that it's the thinker- that mind still operates as if it exists, but it isn't real. I don't have this completely understood yet.

#2 explain in detail what the self is and how it works. See #1. I can regurgitate what I've read, but I need to take some time to spell it out clearly in my own words...

#3 how does it feel to be liberated? Today, it has felt free, unburdened by worry of making wrong choices. I've kept yours words close today. Surrender.

More later.

I:

I'm sooo glad to hear, D, that the shift has occurred and suffering is dropping.

One more step- awareness just is. There is no you in there, it is not personal. Look at a cat, is he awareness? It's just like a space which notices itself.

Tell me, does awareness needs an 'i' to be aware?

As for first question:

Until all old programming is cleared and processed, the mind refers to 'no you'. Then it just drops. You'll see, it's not something I can explain. I don't think now about it at all, just living life.

It may take a few months to clean the clutter.

Second: yes, who was surprised? Was it just feeling of surprise appearing? And mind labelled it as ' I'm surprised?'

To all this I can answer with a video. It's an hour long documentary about scientific search for self.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Watch it and them answer all 3 questions again. :)

Much love!

D:

When you went through this, did you have nightmares? I have horrible nightmares EVERY night. I don't even like walking into the bedroom anymore.

I:

I did not have nightmares, no, but it's different for everyone. I stopped following dreams, they are just dreams now, brain processes with no meaning.

Did you watch that video?

Big hug

D:

I watched the video and it really gave me a lot to think about, actually, it felt like real evidence for what i believed anyway. To be honest, I've spent much of the weekend trying to distract myself from the heaviness of this no self business. But this evening I've been drawn to Eckart Tolle. I have some of his books on audio and I find his voice to be very soothing. I'm taking his advice and spending time facing and embracing my grief, saying yes to what is and coming to terms with the fact that no one has any choice in what they do. I have looked long and hard and can find no evidence of a me. I feel Source acting through me and believe that all "I" need to do is allow it without resistance.
Surrender is difficult to maintain. I can surrender 50 times a day and find that I need to surrender again. It's like I've always heard of forgiveness - it's not a one time thing, it has to be done over and over.

I:

I see that there is still a lot inside that needs to be released. Of course, so many years of piling it up and stuffing feelings as far away as possible.

One thing, notice, that surrender is also happening by itself, no matter what thoughts about it say. :)

Yes it's a ride without driver, any time you feel like you are driving- it's just another idea ready to be released.

It will get lighter and clearer in time. Relax more, deeper. All is taken care of. :)

So maybe you are ready to review the last 3 questions again?

Much love.

D:

Ok, here are my answers today:

Is there a me? There is a body which functions on it's own as any animal. The "me" which was there was an illusion created by the ego.

What the self is and how it works- the self is the mistaken attempt by the ego to project itself as separate from everything else. I AM the source of everything that is, acting and experiencing everything as and through this form of D. D is limited to her experiences just as a dog or cat can only experience through it's own being. But they are only tools used to experience and to act out the One Life that lives through everything. I AM that. The self is no thing.

How does it feel to be liberated? I would like to say it feels peaceful and easy, but the experience of this life continues, at times, to be unbearable. Knowing that I AM in this form may take some more time, but I experience a constant drive to end this life. I understand that the thoughts are of The Source so "I" am torn as to act on these thoughts or to simply watch them pass and continue on to tomorrow.

I realize after reading this that D sounds like a terrible mess, but that's just a label, too.

I:

It’s great, D, thank you.
Two things that seem odd:
illusion was created by ego.- is ego real? Can it create anything?

I am the source of everything that is. -what would happen to everything that is if there was no you? Can you look a bit deeper here. What is the source?

It’s all unravelling already. Mess is getting cleared... :)
with love.

D:

Illusion must then be created as everything else is created - by the One Source. The nature of this "life". You're right; it doesn't make sense that the ego, which is not real, could create anything. Is this true?

By "I am the source" I mean that I am not me, in this body, this individual, but rather a part of the One Source. Call it God or Life or It. I read somewhere that sunlight flowing through a red glass appears red, through green glass, green. iT appears through this being as me, but I am still a part of that 'sun'. If there was no me, nothing would change. I see it as the realization of the 'I AM'.

Am I on the right track?

I:

Dear D.

Seems that you have graduated! !!!

:))

Is there anything else I can help you with?

If you are on Facebook, there is a group there for all new 'liberated', a place to share, explore, support when needed. If you don't have an account, you may create one, doesn’t even need to be on your own name if you don't want. Would be great if you joined. Just find me through my blog. And please let me know if it's ok to put our conversation on the blog. :)

Much love.

D:

There's still some unresolved garbage, but I really appreciate your help.
Thanks for the Facebook invitation; I'll look for a link on your blog page. I don't mind if you put this on your page, but I would rather you change my name since D is my real name.
I'll look for you on Facebook and hope to talk to you again soon. It’s been such a gift having you to communicate with.
Much Love

I:

Thank you.

It's been a pleasure to assist. <3 any time you have a question; I'm just an email away. But from now on life is getting interesting. :) All is working out. For me in the beginning it felt that everything started to fall into place, all unravelling in perfect ways.

Some time later
 


It had been about 4 months since I started reading Jed McKenna's books and the idea of no self was on my mind all the time. I started writing, trying to peel myself apart to get down to where there was nothing, but there was always something, and the mind chewed on it and turned it around and tried to make it fit. I bought books by other authors and was always trying to find a way to get my head around it and make it stick. It was all intellect, the mind trying to figure it out. It wasn't until life was turned completely upside down that there was an opening. The identity was clinging so hard to the heartache and misery, "my story", but it was that VERY suffering that I first was able to recognize as suffering- appearing without the me. 

Over time, with Ilona's help, I looked, really spent time alone with what I Am that I began to see the emotions passing through and relaxed the grip of the "I". There was no sudden "happening" as I had anticipated, it felt as if the bulk of "me" just dissipated like a ghost. I say the bulk because I've found, just over the past week or two, that the mind slips "me" in every now and then. It's like mind keeps trying to recreate a me. But there never was one. Life lives directly, experiences directly and continues the "story" by itself. There is recognition when the mind does this and then it falls away. I "see" Life acting through others and recognize it as such, but still feel annoyed, frustrated or angry or sad at times but there is no me to claim it! Only seeing, feeling, experiencing these emotions- watching them pass through. 

One other thing worth noting: This person I've claimed as me has been physically very tense for many years with the burden of imagined control (and perhaps guilt of past mistakes, etc.). Have seen pain specialists about it over years. These are noticeably better. Physically, there is a  relaxation of muscles in the neck and back which have caused this pain in the past. 
Ever Grateful for your pointing :)
D