I just saw your email address on your blog. I left a comment yesterday asking if you could work with me like you did with Harry? Since I don't know if you ever see those, I thought I'd ask through email.
The weight of the me feels crushing, and no matter what I have tried to get out from underneath it, has not worked. It is starting to feel like nothing will. You seem to have a way to get people to see through it clearly so I thought (though really scared), to ask you.
thank you for email. good that you wrote me here, i do not get notified when somebody posts a comments, so i did not see it yesterday.
i can help you to find out what is going on and i will give you some questions to look at. but it is you that does the work and i can only help. so if you are ready please write a bit about your story and list all that you expect from this seeing. what do you imagine it to be after and what you do not want it to be. take a honest and serious look at what expectations are there.
Thank you! Bless you! I am ready!
I'm not sure what is best to tell you so I will focus on the "spiritual". I have been on the search for about 26 years. My first introduction to the concept that there was something that made more sense to me than Christianity came from Shirley MacLaine of all people, and then it just took on a life of it's own.
I dropped Christianity at that point and dived into the new-age world, (intermixed with Anthony DeMello and others) but the new age scene quickly felt to be a bit too...(pardon the expression)... "woo woo" for me at times. I then found Fred Alan Wolf's books and felt more nourished from what was coming out of the theoretical physic's world at the time and hung out there for a while. Then, one day after watching Joseph Campbell on PBS about what we have believed as a species since the beginning of recorded time; something hit after the part of how one culture would throw a virgin into a volcano to honor their God, (and I have been told that wasn't on the program...?)...in that moment, for some reason, I realized just how silly all the spiritual beliefs I had were. It all seemed like utter foolishness and by the end of the night it all just tanked. I then decided I was an atheist.
This belief that there was no God, no after-life, no re-incarnation, no meaning to life at all, lasted for I don't know how many miserable years. And then one day, right out of the blue while in a state of complete misery, I think my mind stopped for a moment, and it was then that I had a taste for two days of "oneness". I had honestly not heard of anything of what I had experienced until later.
After that, I started plowing through books just trying to make sense out of what happened...which as the story goes, has just turned into years of a maddening frantic love/ hate search of trying just about anything and everything to wake the hell up - that at present I am feeling just about completely and totally exhausted and disillusioned from. (Not to mention, confused!)
But really, what I am mostly tired of is this story of me. I see so clearly that this self interest thing that exists that I can't seem to shake - (the "me story") is the very thing that is keeping me from experiencing the love, joy, happiness and intimacy with all life and God that I know in my heart is there.
As far as practice: I do TM and other meditations to calm my nervous system. As far as what teachings I am drawn to: I have been all over the place and am pretty open-minded, but I find that I do for some reason keep coming back to and have a resonance with those in Ramana's lineage (and have used the "who am I?" question until blue in the face!) I love Pamela Wilson's work, I really resonate with her. I also love Gangaji, Mooji, Neelam, Papaji...etc. I resonate with Adyashanti as well.
What do I expect from seeing - What are my expectations? Well, if you don't mind, I'll just give it to you in all brutal honesty. I want to be free. I expect to not have any doubts about who I am, (or not!) and to not go back ever again. I expect to not take what arises in my life personally. I expect to see that I am not the Do-er. I expect that I will not take my emotions personally and that they wont have such an impact on how I live my life (in fear of rejection mostly). I expect to experience Oneness with all life...God...the other as the self...that kind of thing. I expect to experience a reasonable amount of happiness and joy as a result, (for it seems anyway, "the story of me" is the source of my unhappiness). I expect to not be attached to thoughts and emotions. I expect that I will be able to deal with others better and not be so scared of them. I would like to be able to experience that what comes my way is just Love - no matter what appears. I would actually love to experience Agape as the background of my life. I think the only time I have really felt real love and the sense of being cradled and held by Life and that I belonged here was when I experienced "oneness" - which was a long, long time ago. That would be nice too. Bottom line though - the prayer that I pray every day, honestly, is that I will discover the Ultimate Truth (that is how it sounds in my heart) before I die.
What I don't want it to be after:
I would not want it to come and go. I would like to be able to see it and be done with it for good. Like what happens when you realize that what you took as being black was actually navy blue and now you can't see it as black anymore. (God I just really want it over damn it!) I don't want it to be the same as it is now where the weight of "the me story" feels like gravity holding me to the ground and keeping me from living the life that I want to live. I wouldn't want things to be the same as they are now where my mind is racing constantly and is reactive and my emotional body feels like a tornado. I don't expect endless bliss...I mean, yea...some bliss would be nice. I have heard that by seeing the truth of what you are is the end of suffering - not the end of pain - but suffering, and that it is not an experience. (And I don't know if that is true or not...but I'd settle for some relief from suffering!)
Rupert Spira just posted a video where he said that you are no longer affected by anything, therefore you can allow everything - that sounds so wonderful! It would suck if that didn't happen!
If I think of any more, I will be sure to tell you.
Thank you so, so much! You have no idea how much this means to me!
thank you for detailed answer.
let's start working with it.
"But really, what I am mostly tired of is this story of me. I see so clearly that this self interest thing that exists that I can't seem to shake - (the "me story") is the very thing that is keeping me from experiencing the love, joy, happiness and intimacy with all life and God that I know in my heart is there."
the me story is not a problem, the story does not end. there is still a story going on here. what ends is the belief that the story is real. i will get you to see this a little bit later down the line of inquiry. for now, don't try to shake it off. you do not need to fight the story. all you need is to see that story is self narrating. there is no one here telling it or listening to it, it just keeps going on as a radio.
"What do I expect from seeing - What are my expectations? Well, if you don't mind, I'll just give it to you in all brutal honesty. I want to be free."
brilliant. the right intention in here.
"I expect to not have any doubts about who I am, (or not!) and to not go back ever again."
once the truth is seen, it can not be unseen. same way as you can never believe that Santa is real. no matter what stories are here trying to convince you otherwise. there is a difference between real and imagined.
"I expect to not take what arises in my life personally. "
it may happen from the beginning or not, there is usually some residue that needs to be seen through as well. but yes, after some time the that is the case- nothing is personal.
"I expect to see that I am not the Do-er."
good one. tell me, do you see that you are the doer? how? explain to me how do you do what you do.
"I expect that I will not take my emotions personally and that they wont have such an impact on how I live my life (in fear of rejection mostly)."
"I expect to experience Oneness with all life...God...the other as the self...that kind of thing. I expect to experience a reasonable amount of happiness and joy as a result, (for it seems anyway, "the story of me" is the source of my unhappiness)."
we are not looking for a state here, experience of oneness is not permanent. it is a state, and all states come and go.
"I expect to not be attached to thoughts and emotions. I expect that I will be able to deal with others better and not be so scared of them. "
It is quite opposite. thoughts and emotions have nothing to attach to anymore. it is not i that has them, but they have I.
"I would like to be able to experience that what comes my way is just Love - no matter what appears. I would actually love to experience Agape as the background of my life. I think the only time I have really felt real love and the sense of being cradled and held by Life and that I belonged here was when I experienced "oneness" - which was a long, long time ago. That would be nice too"
it already is. all is love, in disguise.
"Bottom line though - the prayer that I pray every day, honestly, is that I will discover the Ultimate Truth (that is how it sounds in my heart) before I die. "
nice. ultimate truth. let's start from the basic. there is no self at all.
"before we move to next step, you have to leave all your expectation behind. none of them can even come close to what is going to be seen when the gate is crossed. so it is best not to expect anything, instead focus on seeing with fresh eyes. "
take this thought in, consider it seriously as truth and write to me all that comes up- feelings, thoughts, sensations.
there is no separate self at all in reality, no manager, no observer, no witness. there is no self as in zero. there is no such entity me to which life happens. there is no i that owns a story. there is only life moving freely, without a general manager- you.
Thank you! Here are the answers to your questions.
"I expect to see that I am not the Do-er.
Good one. Tell me, do you see that you are the doer? How?"
Yes, I believe I am no matter how hard I have tried to see it to the contrary.
To be honest, if I could sum up what it sounds like in the do-er’s mind …it would sound like this: “I have control over my decisions, thoughts, opinions, beliefs ,likes and dislikes, reactions, (and if, or if not, I react to things, or instead choose to process the emotions instead). I choose how I feel emotionally. I chose how to act around people, what to say, what not to say. I decide what superficially to do with my body, such as what to eat, what to wear, if I exercise or not, when I brush my teeth, go to bed, etc. (I know I don’t beat my heart or digest my food or any other bodily system for that matter). I don’t have control of the weather, others, or the world, (or if I wake up obviously! J)... but I believe that I am the do-er in the sense of what I do with myself in relation to them. As the do-er, deep down there is a belief that I would love to control it all if I could.
"Take this thought in, consider it seriously as truth and write to me all that comes up- feelings, thoughts, sensations.
There is no separate self at all in reality, no manager, no observer, no witness. There is no self as in zero. There is no such entity me to which life happens. there is no i that owns a story. there is only life moving freely, without a general manager- you."
What comes up first is Death. Fear, terror, in the body felt in the stomach area very strongly. Thoughts come like “I’m not up for this…I’m not ready to die…I’ll lose everything I love and value so dearly. I won’t exist anymore!” Then comes the grief. Then feeling like a fraud because I said I am tired of being ‘a me’, and wondering if I am really ready for this.
A deep fear arises of not existing – even if my existence now includes a lot of suffering. A great, GREAT loss. Like I am on my death bed and seeing all that I love and who I love and feeling a preciousness that I didn’t know was there regarding my own being. Mourning. Sadness. Burning in chest and throat. Teary. A touch of anger, frustration and resentment that this is what it takes that is felt in the stomach and throat.
With no manager: Terror of something terrible happening in the event that if I am still here, that what I will be is just an object that is subjected to objectification against my will, and I will just be pummeled and used by life – similar to what I might be like to be raped then stoned to death – or like being in a concentration camp. (Sorry for the graphics – it’s just what is coming). This is felt as regret, helplessness, desperation and powerlessness, and with that, a contraction in the gut area, stomach, throat and heart.
With no observer: A deep sense of loss comes, then sadness , depression and a heaviness in the chest - like the end of the world and into a dark oblivion to which all the things I loved to see, like trees and birds and clouds and rain and flowers and babies of all species…on and on… will never be seen again.
No witness: Again – death - a void.
No separate self at all: No autonomy, robotic, a machine, invisible, which when I boil it all down again, comes the fear of rejection, then neglect, which then leads to death.
No self as in zero: no joy, no happiness, just blaa… an object. What is strange is that here again, there is a sense of a fear of being overwhelmed and controlled and taken advantage of (or neglected) by other people, which in the end boils down to a painful death.
No I that owns a story – there is only life moving freely, without a general manager – you: Oddly on this one what comes is that, if I am not dead, and all of this still remains…this actually feels like peace and deep freedom…however, there is still a bit a fear coming in the back door that is the fear of losing control. Or letting go of control. Which leads to misery, which again leads to the fear of death.
Thank you Ilona!
Thank you for answers.
There is nothing that dies or looses control. That which is imagined can not die. Can a batman die? Thing is this me , Ejaia is just like batman an imagined character. There is no real Ejaia.
If I tell you to touch your leg- you touch a leg. Touch it. Now left arm, and the chin, now touch right ear, and the nose.
Just follow through this.
Now touch Ejaia.
Where is it? In the body, outside the body, in thoughts? Where is Ejaia?
Can you at least point it with a finger?
What happens here?
Can you touch that which is looking through the eyes? If not, how do you know that there is something there at all?
Can that which does not exist disappear?
Have a good ponder on these questions and answer when ready.
Your answers are so calming and assuring. Thank you. I feel so much gratitude for the generosity of your time, and this already amazing exploration!
I have been playing with this since yesterday and want to play with this more so as to give the answers more depth and to be more clear. (But what is funny is that the more I play with it, the more confused I become!) :)))
I thought I'd give you what has come so far, as I may not be able to sit with this more until tomorrow.
What I got was this:
At first I was stumped. It stopped my mind dead in its tracks, which then was followed by a surprised excited curiosity, and then the mind kicking in with all it's arguments that "this is just a trick!" The major argument that I can't seem to get through is that I can't be in just one place - I am the whole package, which is a mixture of thoughts inside a body, that feels emotions and sensations. I don't feel like nothing. I feel like me. But I don't know exactly where! (scratching head!) :)
I played with this all night. It was like..."Yea, where am I...good question!?" It really boggles the mind. And what I found is that my mind always comes up with some proof. Mostly in the heart and gut area, and oddly inside and outside my head around the area of the ears. In getting curious about the ear part, I think it is linked to listening to thoughts. I don't know. It is truly boggling! :)
After that, I haven't been able to access that first pure experience of just being stumped as hard as I have tried. It is like my mind knows the game now.
On your question: Can I touch that which is looking through the eyes? Beautiful question! NO! Very cool!
If not, how do I know that there is something there at all? Another beautiful question...Amazing!
To answer: I can see there is nothing - but there still seems to be something at the same time. Something like what water must be to a fish. It is sensed as full or fluid-like - but not in a physical way. (This is when attention is placed on it outwardly). Yet, when I pull the seeing in on it - as in, like pulling the attention in toward the eyes to the inside of the body; there is something sensed as being solid. But what? Crazy! My mind thinks its the body - but that is some thing. So the lingering question at the moment is: "But what knows this nothing? What sees this? This has to be something because it is known to exist even if nothing is there, and I have to be the one that knows that." (God! This is to funny! I'm really confused!) :) :P
Thank you for answer. Good work.
"I am the whole package, which is a mixture of thoughts inside a body, that feels emotions and sensations. I don't feel like nothing. I feel like me. But I don't know exactly where!"
Find that sense of aliveness, perceiving, amness, that sense of me, this is a real sense. But the label over it - me/ I / self is believed to be a separate entity. That is not real.
Check if that sense is still there without labels. If you label that sense ejaia, does it become a separate person?
The sense is not a self. It is real sense + label.
If you look at label university, what does it point to? There are buildings, rooms, people, computers, books, things, a whole lot of them, but is there a university? There is a label that is practical to use, but is there something other than a symbol?
Can you see that there is body, brain, senses, thoughts, feelings that each can be experienced separately. See if there is a command centre, a manager that is underneath the label me, or is it just a symbol for convenience.
The senses are not going to disappear. There is no sudden death, just recognition that what was thought to be a separate entity has never been here.
Write what comes up. Investigate senses, each one separately, is there a me in any of them?
With eyes closed listen to sounds, feel the aliveness and see if you can find a line between here and there. Is there a point in space to which sound happens?
No there is no line. It is in ‘me’ - no distance. And It just IS.
It’s a total Mystery.
With eyes open see if there is a line between inside and outside.
There is NO LINE! Only variances of sensations that would suggest there are, but when looked at directly, there is no reality to it. “Inside – Outside” Makes no sense at all. What’s inside is outside and what’s outside is inside! It’s all enveloped somehow – an indivisible Whole.
Can you switch seeing on an off?
No, it is immovably “solidly” there, even in movement. It is as if the solidity of seeing itself, cannot be pulled apart from what is seen in it. You could try to take a knife and slash it apart but it would be like cutting air. Even when eyes are closed, there is just another dimension of seeing. Seeing doesn’t go away. Seeing feels like aliveness. How could you pull aliveness from seeing? It is alive.
For a moment a fear arose as it dawned that this is completely beyond what “I” thought anything was. Thoughts are pouring in to say: “How is it that this is…or anything is? What is seeing or making sight be? What is doing this? ” The mind is scared to know what that is.
More fear arises around a thought that says that the mind will just lose it-- lose its sanity (what a joke!) if it sees what is really there! But something knows that that is not true and wants to dive radically into this discomfort that feels like it isn’t hooked up to thought or emotion in the ways that it is used to - or maybe, it is just that what is felt just has an unfamiliar quality of intense disquieting curiosity. It is sensed that to dive directly into this is freedom, but the mind keeps pulling away.
Can you see what is not visible?
This deep alive seeing, “see’s” that there is the non-visible, but this seeing never leaves.
It stands apart somehow - but yet, at the same time, is inseparable from what is seen or not seen.
It is sensed as Intelligence or Knowing ITSELF, which again, cannot be pulled apart from the visible or the not visible - and it is just same as with the visible, as it too cannot be pulled apart from the not visible, for they too are sensed to be of the same Interwoven Whole of the Whole.
There is a sense that this deep alive Seeing Itself is infinite, and that the physical display of what is seen is also just of the “stuff” of the infinite. Just infinity in flux – in motion. Arising and falling back in the Not Visible Whole.
So yes. In this way, even the Not Visible is “seen”.
This “not seen” IS ITSELF not seeing anything visible IN ITSELF.
You can’t pull one speck of it out of Itself. It is ALL ITSELF. Seeing Itself Knowing Itself.
I see Ejaia trying to come in and grab this and try to make sense of it all, and then confusing begins. If Ejaia and confusion are just arising that just a rise and fall back into This Alive Knowing Seeing. It makes sense to just let them fall back without grabbing onto them as though they were the ultimate reality or truth of the way things are, and treat them as if they are just another arising in the Seeing, which still is just part of wholeness--just not the truth.
I have no clue.
When you do a simple task like washing dishes is there a doer there?
This one has been quite a challenge. When engaging in activities I see there is quite the do-ership going on. But then at the same time that makes no sense because I can see things are just happening and then at one point the credit comes in as an idea or sense of me doing it. I spent most of my day on this. I keep thinking of something that i believe Steven Levine said: "What’s in the way IS the way!" :)
When I am sitting down and deep in the inquiry of your questions, or just being still and completely immersed in alive sensing experience, it is not difficult.
Is there a point in space that makes the dishes done?
It feels rather than being done, it is abandoned. (which is so beautiful, I could just gush all day about it!)
Without labels, without naming what is going on, what is happening? Feel it.
My first reaction to this when I saw what I saw, I just roared with laughter.
The mind just breaks it up into illusory parts. IT IS SEAMLESS!
Finality is an idea! Done is a concept!
It is a seamless flow. One thing abandoned into another.
As I sit here, what is experienced, is that it is all just arising and falling sensations. One sensation flowing seamlessly into the next, (but never separated from the Whole). One sensation may be experienced more profoundly by standing out or lingering, (or capture more of attention), but then it just falls back and settles into a symphony or soup of sensations -- of experience. The different tones or instruments that are played or that occur in a piece of music is actually a beautiful simile for this.
The sense of me in this moment, when looked at closely, is seen to be part of the symphony of sensations, (that for the time being, is more accessible to experience while in this quiet space of alive repose).
Sending Love back
I am noticing this insidious notion that sounds experientially like...(if it had words): "I'm the one doing things in life, and what happens in life, happens to me". I guess I expect that at one point this sense or idea of Ejaia as being the center will just drop out. But I say this, fully seeing, that if I knew - really knew what was going on, I'd be living the answer.
Last night in the middle of the night I woke up (and I fully realize that this all could just be in my mind), but it seemed anyway that there was no sense of me AT ALL in the most radical of way. There was nothing there that was relate-able to what I have felt as being myself. Intense fear immediately struck and I went into a panic, but then somehow the mind or system was calmed by whatever by touching into that place that what was sensed yesterday as this timelessness - Whole. The question kept arising as to what is more preferable really...Ejaia or the felt absence of her? The answer was, her absence, for she appears to be time itself. Which is an illusion, I see that now. It's like..."Hmmm... let's see...live in a belief that I am a time bound entity, or what was sensed yesterday?" Haha!
So today in using whatever that was (if anything) last night as a guidepost to compare to the experience of today, it is like night and day. There is this notion STILL of a central entity Ejaia that that happened to. It seems like a brick wall.
Thanks for listening to this venting, and for the generosity of your time!
How is it going? What else have you been noticing.
You say: "I'm the one doing things in life, and what happens in life, happens to me".
What happens if "to me" is replaced with "as this"?
Ejaia is a character in the story. It's fiction. Saying that ejaia feels is same as saying batman feels. It's a nice story, but if you look at feelings without naming them, they are just raw sensations arising. Not to ejaia, but they just are. Until they pass. There is only now. Only this. That includes thoughts about it. But thoughts are only reflecting what is. Not IT.
Write to me.
(This is long. I just let it flow in the moment and this is what came).
How is it going? What else have you been noticing.
There was a hang up on this do-ership thing that was really snagging the attention into the mind in trying to get, see through, and then have as an embodied experience. I spent a lot of time noticing what is really going on. (As a side note: I notice that for some reason, having your presence on the other side really helps the process for some reason as I kind of spun out on my own. So thank you!). I think yesterday I realized it wasn’t serving anything and to just let it go. It will come when it comes.
What did peek through from time to time, (but very quietly); was noticing the utter arrogance of the assumption that ‘I’ – (meaning identified as the idea of a separate self, Ejaia), could do anything. It all seems to be a thought coming in after - like a commentator of a basketball game, doing a play by play on experience that has already taken place, and then going over and over and over about certain bits some happening, from all different angles for long periods of time, and skimming over other happenings, not deemed so important.
This commentator or moderator is such a familiar sense, it is as if the moderator is the sense of Ejaia itself, and that is what I have taken myself to be. There is quite a tug of war going on between the familiar sense of a separate self, and the un familiar seeing that that sense is arising inseparably in the soup of the Whole.
There is a deep sense internally that this idea of a separate self has reached the top of a summit where the only place to go is to the decent. Another way of putting this is that it is sensed that there is no way back now, like some threshold has been crossed, and what that is I don’t know.
(A fear just arose now that you didn’t get the answers from the other day, but I trust that you did and all is well and that you will let me know if not. The fear being of being off the mark and you not knowing.)
I have also been just playing around more with the immovability of the senses. And I notice that as long as there is a notice-er, there is no intimacy of direct experience. It appears anyway, that what happens is that it creates a subject -object relationship...the notice-er of what is noticed , rather than just dropping the notice-er altogether, and resting as the soup of Undivided Wholeness.
I don’t know what to expect. I notice that there are notions that get attached to instill doubt in that I’m not getting the point, things should be different than the way they are, and then I remember you saying that it won’t be anything like what is expected. So I am in this kind of “nowhere to hold onto” kind of place, between a world just discovered that feels so impersonal, and the personalized world I was used to.
it just right now, in a sense kind of way, that the mind wants to know what it is so it can rest, and a deep compassion arises for it. I wonder just now while typing this, if this is what all this sadness is that has been experienced over the last… (I don’t know how many days). Maybe this sadness has been of the longing for home. (wooo...It just struck of how very Pamela Wilson this is!) – But that is honestly how it feels-- like it doesn’t know where to go – like, very lost right now!
On another note; I notice two very seemingly distinct things going on. There is a solidity – an immovability experienced in /as THIS, and at the same time, there is the movement – the soup of experience set in front of ‘it’ (so to speak). THIS Immovability stands apart from the movement, but yet is, again, inseparable from it.
There is a very impersonal nature to it. Completely unaffected, and neutral of even being neutral. In fact, it is sensed, that none of this even matters to it, but yet all this still IS, even if matter-less. Like meaning or mattering is just a concept thrown on top of it, and we all can just laugh and go home. How funny!
It is sensed that this immovability is timeless. Time is a concept in it. In fact, where is a past? I look and there is none - but only as thought that arises now. Wow!
Ilona, does it ever get to the point where it just feels like Nothing is doing this, and that sense of me that I took myself to be dissolves? I expect that to go away completely, and it doesn’t. It seems if it doesn’t it could easily be taken as a me that is experiencing, rather than just Experiencing Itself. (Ha! That's a nice thought! Hm...on second thought, maybe not!) But I'd still like to hear your take, if you are up to it.
Oh…I have wondered: “Well, who is even talking to Ilona?”:D)) THIS must be talking to THIS. It is the only explanation. You can’t be out there somewhere Ilona! Haha! But this is more of deductive reason. There is still a part that believes that it should LOOK visually different than it does, if it is anything. (I think memories are getting in the way of that oneness experience). Who knows! This is very different. It is more of a quiet sense.
You say: "I'm the one doing things in life, and what happens in life, happens to me".
What happens if "to me" is replaced with "as this"?
I will rephrase:
“THIS is the ONE doing things in life, and what happens in life, happens in THIS”.
(In some weird way right now, it sensed that nothing has ever happened, and strangely, that nothing is really happening on some level, although I don’t understand it! ) :D)))
It just creates such an easy shift of perception. It just pours back in and it then expands (so to speak) back to Whole. Everything becomes soft and fluid. Very light, but in a downy kind of way. No ‘out’ and ‘in’. Just solidly immovably Here-- back to where there is only ever THIS. Everything is only in ‘it’ and of ‘it’. Anything that arises is just What-Is-Now. (And, not “now” as in time, but as in the Immovable THIS-ness). Haha! (wow! what joy just hit!)
"Ejaia is a character in the story. It's fiction. Saying that Ejaia feels is same as saying batman feels. It's a nice story, but if you look at feelings without naming them, they are just raw sensations arising. Not to Ejaia, but they just are. Until they pass. There is only now. Only this. That includes thoughts about it. But thoughts are only reflecting what is. Not IT."
Reflecting is a beautiful word – like reflecting back – not as in a direct reflection.
It is becoming more clear. Like how could it be any other way! :D))) …for it is just a thought believed to be otherwise.
Write to me.
Thanks for listening! i just want to say that it is becoming clear that this (for me anyway) is about Sanity. “Spirituality” (this is, in how I have defined it anyway ), at this moment feels like a trance state of being in a deep coma but with eyes open. I will take Sanity any day, for it is sensed now that this too is what has always been deeply longed for. Quite a surprise!
Your presence is a gift that there are just no words for!
That was beautiful to see you working through and seeing glimpses.
First let's answer your question. Sense of self, that is labeled me, does not go away.
Belief that the raw sense is a me is seen as belief only. I still feel everything as before, but all more intensely, as if a curtain was pulled of senses. It did not happen overnight though and that came with a bit of surprise. When liberation deepens ( and that may take years) some say that sense of self completely disappears. But don't expect that just yet. Nothing changes other than a belief drops.
When you no longer believe something you used to, nothing changes in reality. It is just a shift in perception.
There is narration of story going on, verbal thoughts that tell the story, but there is no moderator. It's all just blah blah blah. If you take it seriously, it sucks you in and locks in feedback loop, where thoughts and feelings reinforce each other- insanity!
Thoughts are not to be taken seriously, just notice and then notice the new ones arising.
Nowhere to hold on- get used to it. There is really just falling. If you hold on to idea or belief, it will only cause more grief. Letting go of everything, surrender to life is the only way out of suffering. Again, it does not happen with realization event, but within awakening process that is the rest of your life.
Look directly at your fear of loosing sanity. Is there a you that can loose anything? There is natural intelligence at play, it will not disappear, now it is covered by fears of what others will think about you. There are no others same way as there is no you. Empty.
When you look with eyes, look at seeing itself. Is there a seer or just clear unobstructed empty seeing?
Can you get home if you never left home?
This is already whole. Seeing is always here, without belief that there is some kind of entity observing, seeing what is, it's all already clear.
Take a closer look at what eyes see and tell me, besides what is seen, is there anything else? Is any effort required to see?
Home is all there is. And yes, it's now.
Lots of love.
Look directly at your fear of losing sanity. Is there a you that can lose anything?
No! And nothing - NOTHING can be truly lost or gained in This. It is so solidly immovably timelessly ever-present fresh HERE! Nothing can stick, harm, contaminate, destroy, or effect. It is Empty yet Exists.
So yes, no me. Just THIS.
Sanity – insanity of a ‘me’ - is just another arising, including the thoughts and feelings about losing it or gaining it. All held in THIS as This of This.
There are no others same way as there is no you. Empty.
Do you have a good pointer on this one? I have been looking at that on my own and it hasn't felt alive.
I look at my husband just now as he is walking around doing his thing. If I drop all labels…..Wow. I don’t know him.
(I feel another ‘death’ of another story coming on!)
So many stories of ‘husband’ and of ‘the others’ in ‘my life’ just hit right in the gut! Ha! Wow! Just letting that sink in.
Here comes the grief. (I wasn’t expecting that).
There is a ‘him’ and ‘others’ when there is an idea that there is ‘a me’ in subject-object relationship to ‘them’. Exactly like the seeming separate notice-er, or observer of the sense perceptions that combine to make up an apparent separate ‘world’, that simply when dropped, reveals ‘the’ WHOLE.
Ilona, I just got…
There is no past. They can’t be real. OMG!
Just trying to take it all in….
Free falling again! Haha!
(Hm...If you have more pointers up your sleeve around this it would be much appreciated. I can tell this may take a bit to take in and digest!)
I feel much like John Nash in “A Beautiful Mind” at the moment. (If you have seen it) – it’s the part where it slightly begins to dawn on him that the life he had believed was real, wasn’t, and the people he thought were real…weren’t, but he wasn’t completely convinced, so there was still just a bit of doubt or denial about it…
(Until of course the beautiful moment that he sees that the girl doesn’t age – and then wham! Clarity!)
When you look with eyes, look at seeing itself. Is there a seer or just clear unobstructed empty seeing?
Just Clear, Fresh, Pure, Empty, unobstructed Seeing.
Can you get home if you never left home?
You know, I thought of that while I was typing ‘yesterday’ and saw on one level of the utter nonsense of it. And as I really sat with that more, what is sensed anyway, is that the homesickness experienced here, in this body, was a longing to see exactly That.
Home is ALL THERE IS. Home was never left. Home is what I am. You can’t step out of it. You can’t pull one thing away from it or separate it out in any way. Impossible! All is in It and of It, AS It, and It is Timeless. If a place was ever to be found outside of It, that would be It too! There is no escaping It. Where ever you go, there YOU ARE.
Take a closer look at what eyes see and tell me, besides what is seen, is there anything else? Is any effort required to see?
No. And if a seeming observer pops in announcing (so to speak) that it is what is seeing, that is observed - that is seen. It’s the Whole - another arising in the Seen as the Seen ITSELF. It just requires a gentle, subtle, soft, shift of attention.
Home is all there is. And yes, it's now.
A profound heart felt “yes!”…
…and just big tears falling like a fresh spring rain, expressing the beauty and depths of this utter gratitude…
Much Love Ilona!
Welcome home. How does it feel to realize this? How does it feel to see through illusion of separate self?
Write all that comes up.
Lots of love.
Immediately the heart warms and softens, followed by a burst of sweet tears. There a deep sense of relief mixed with gratitude. A love. Something that all combined, could be said to be the feeling of such grace - like ‘a’ gift, but without the word “a” to separate it. Without “a” as to imply that a gift has been given - Just GIFT. The Giver, Gift merged and intertwined.
It is so bittersweet the mind just will never understand. And what strikes just now, that In This, bittersweet has no meaning. Bittersweet is just simply here - immediate - intimate in the What Is Untouched, yet holding it just the same.
A thought arises with such authority…”Is she sure? How does she really know? What if she is wrong? What about “this” and “this” and “that”! - spinning its yarn with brilliant clever evidence. And it is seen that if this is believed, this merry go round could go on and on endlessly, forever!
A quiet joy arises now in the seeing of this madness! Something deep just now wants to just roar! A Thought dictating the reality of What Is Knowing it…Existing it! Enough comic relief to last a lifetime! Looking for ‘your’Self when ‘your’Self is what is looking! What Joy! What utter brilliant madness! As if to be the last to be caught in Ones own game!
Ilona. A deep , deep heartfelt bow of utter, utter gratitude is felt here for you. The space that you so lovingly held felt like a magical womb. So effable was this tender, kind, clear, patient, loving softness. I feel so blessed to have experienced this in such a beautiful and gentle way. You are embedded in my heart. There really are no words for this priceless gift. What a treasure! I just hope that the depth of what is felt here somehow makes its way to your heart.
In Love and Gratitude!
your words touch my heart. I'm sending love right back. of course i feel it, this gift found it's way and has been shared and received.... you captured it perfectly.
so great to be part of this!
it will sink in, we'll talk tomorrow. indulge in the sweetness :)
How is it going?
Here are some questions that I'd like you to answer fully and honestly, just as you see. We ask this everyone and it let's me see if you crossed the gate with both legs.
Funny you ask!
How am I? In the moment, just coming to terms with the shock of this. :D))
Just reading over these questions (and the first one in particular), it hit hard of how much the idea is hanging out in little corners, as if to hold onto a little speck of something that could have been called Ejaia and her life.
It just hit like a ton of bricks - it ALL has to go. When I went to answer the first question honestly, the thought was that there was a real Ejaia at one time. And then it was like, No! It doesn't work that way - you don't get to have a little me that grew up and then worked with Ilona and then saw that there was no me now, (as if there was a real me then, but now I turn into a "no me"!). That is crazy! Haha!
If you have time I would love to hear what you have to say about this, because at the moment, I am so turned upside down and wonder if I am going too far out there! :D)))
This is utterly mind blowingly radical.
If I don't hear back, just let me settle a bit, and I will gladly answer any and all questions!
Much Love to you!
No, ejaia never was real. It was all an imaginary actor inside the character. But as you see, Santa never existed and nothing happened to him. We can talk about Santa, tell stories and imagine stuff, but, he never was real. No little Santa, no big Santa. No matter how wonderful stories are.
Yes, it is radical as it gets. Beyond expectations :) and never less it's true. It is so simple that it blows the mind!
Sit with it.
Remember a scene from the childhood, check, of there was a self there, was there a me in that image?
Then think about future in 10 years. Would there be a me then?
How about now?
Ps. There is an interview out today on www.batgap.com :) you may watch it.
PS - On the part about feeling as if I am the center of the wholeness - that is not an accurate way to express it. It is impossible to have a center in wholeness. In sitting in THIS, it is more that there is still a strong sense of the familiar sense of myself that I have always taken myself to be.
When I hear people say "there is no-one here". I project that there is no familiar sense of self to them at all. A void - nothing, and I see I expect it to be experienced that way or something like that.
I am so sorry to be difficult. I think I am making this too hard. God! And given all your time. I have to say I am stumped. (And THAT blows my mind!) :D)))
I feel like I am on the verge of something because of the amount of discomfort, disorientation and confusion that I am experiencing at the moment. I just can’t seem to see through it for some reason. Is it just as simple as saying – they are just images that who I really am is aware of?
There is a belief lurking in there, that in all honesty, believes that all that I have done with you, happened to me, and that my childhood happened to me. But that is all images in awareness too.
But then - what is strange; when attention is so immediate – so HERE, it is clear that there is no separate self from the perspective of WHOLENESS; but get this: as crazy as it sounds, there is still some place in the mind where it is still believed that even that is happening to me. (Not ‘me’ as in a separate kind of way, but Me in in the way of how I am used to feeling ‘myself’ to be - as the center).
So when I look back at childhood, I can’t see that from the perspective of WHOLENESS because it is not ALIVE - HERE, other than to say that it is a memory appearing in the Wholeness ‘of’ Now, and given that, it is just an image that I can’t even know if that was even real or even me or not – there is no proof that that even happened - because after all, again, all it is is an image arising now.
And that goes for everything. I can’t prove I was born, went to school, got married or had two children. Hell, for that matter, I can’t even prove that I kissed my husband as he left for work this morning, or this sip that I remember of taking a drink a minute ago really happened. Does that make sense?
And then the other little voice comes in and it is like – “wait, if that wasn’t me then who did that happen to? Who is sitting here now that is experiencing this confusion and all the images that appear in the mind. If it isn’t me that is recalling a past image of myself – of even of 2 seconds ago, then….???” I don’t get it!
I swear I am not trying to be difficult! I wrangled with this all afternoon and into the evening and woke up with it as soon as I opened my eyes this morning. I’m in pretzel Ilona – a pretzel! HA!
I am so excited to watch your interview! That is REALLY COOL! That just gives me joy for some reason! I will watch it today for sure! Thank you for letting me know!
Sending love and apologies! :p
How is your day today? Has the confusion passed or is it still going strong?
Sorry did not reply earlier, after the interview I was bombarded by messages..
Is life still happening to you?
First I want to tell you how much I loved and appreciated the interview! I was struck by so many things from both of you, one of which was in sensing the devotion from both of you to be of service to humanity. Very touching!
I loved Elena’s pure vulnerable honesty and sincerity, and I was totally struck by this sense of you as being just totally surrendered to the flow of life – as in the complete and radical okness of it. It is hard to put what that is into words. Just complete ease with what is - selflessly so.
To answer your question. The confusion culminated into a really beautiful “it is all so perfect and complete" ‘place’, after it was seen that I can't ever know, and don't know what the hell this is!
Being confused, scared, disoriented – Everything!...it is just all arising and falling in THIS. It just IS. Even “Me-ing” is just another arising in and of and in THIS, and it is beautiful, complete, and perfect.
The mind will never understand.
Much in the way of grieving over what was believed to be real is happening, and I am always struck by the next thing to show up as something else to be obliterated in the way of believing that there has been any kind of continuum of solid life here, PERIOD (in the ‘land’ of experience that is). And then I notice that there is a wanting to deny this and grab back onto the world that was once believed was real for some kind of false knowing, comfort or security, but it doesn’t last long. The two year old has its tantrum, and then finally gives in! Ha Ha! :D
So, no. Life is just happening. It is an amazing mystery. The "to me" is just an afterthought --- literally! And that too is inseparably and perfectly included!
All I can do is laugh, cry, and sit in the awe of it all and notice that that which takes credit for doing it, is just another thought and sensation arising, and the hysterics of it all!
Much Love to you!
wonderful, ejaia. i can feel from your message that something has definitely shifted. you see it clearly and describe it beautifully.
i don't know - is the only right answer to any question of why is this or why is that. all answers come from the mind. only that which is experienced silently is true and it can not be put into words.
I'm so happy that the interview has touch some things for you and helped to clarify. it wasn't as i expected, in my mind it only scratched the surface, we did not go very deep. but i am happy that after that interview we have soooo many people coming to LU, it has been very busy!
so tell me, has the shift happened, what exactly happened and what precisely is different now.
just look back and describe the very moment of it.
sending lots of love to you.
Funny that I didn’t feel there was one until you ask; now I see.
Clearly, “The shift” was (if there is such a thing as “was”) and continues to be (if there is such a thing as “continues to be”) :D))) - the gentle yet disquieting collapse of a life believed to be real - of a world believed to be real - of others believed to be real.
What happened precisely came in a chain of events. The first domino to fall was when sitting in the Alive Present Amness that you pointed me to, and what was experienced and seen was that there was an alive field that the images –the movement – (that I took to be who I was), was displayed upon. It was at that moment that it dawned that I am not what I thought I was - and in a most profound way. The physical reaction to this was literally the urge to throw up (which I have not ever experienced a reaction like this before).
In becoming intensely curious about this newly discovered Alive Field; I was able to pick up the immediate Here-ness of it. The timelessness of it. The immovability of it. I would say also that it seems completely unaffected by identification or non-identification. The best word to describe it is that It just IS. Nothing has ever happened to it. Nothing ever could, which provided such a contrast.
While diving into your questions and exercises, it was clear that even though this Timeless field seemed to be apart and unaffected by all this, ALL OF THIS is completely inseparable from It. ALL of this is in it, as it, of it. The next big shift was observing my husband without labels while just standing in that solid Timeless ground. What occurred is how could he have any kind of reality? There is no continuum. Time is an utter illusion. There is no such thing as time as a real thing. So then, nothing can exist in a real way. And if he isn’t real – then I can’t be either.
That took a bit to digest.
The next big shift was when you asked if Ejaia ever existed as a separate self, and seeing that there was still a belief hiding in there that at one time I thought she was real and separate. It was then in realizing how deeply asleep I was, and how deeply attached to that story of “my life and everything in it” – and indeed, "the whole world", was, I would just cry as one thing after another would come to get blown away. It couldn't hold up! Because by now, after spending enough ‘time’ in the timelessness, it was seen as a complete impossibility no matter how much I wanted to attach back to it - that a real person could have ever had any kind of independent live reality. In fact, what became clear, is that not only the whole supposed’ life’ of Ejaia has no real reality, but even the big bang – this whole universe and everything in it, for it appears NOW in this timeless Here-ness.
It is so unfathomable that it just takes the breath away.
The confusion and discomfort was so great at that point. (A lot of disorientation was going on), and oddly, at one point in this whole thing, there was a noticing that even the timelessness – the IS(ness) was known. And what was that? That question just kept haunting me. So in sitting with “Oh my god! I didn’t even have a childhood!” there was an exact moment where is was intuited somehow, that what is holding even THIS, is apart from even THIS somehow, and whatever that is, is completely devoid of anything. There is no speck of anything there - even cognition. It was sensed that whatever that is, is the source of even the timeless field (or what you so beautiful call the Alive Present Amness). And THAT devoid(ness) of ANYTHING – well, ‘it’ too cannot be pulled apart or separated out!
(And how to know this - given that there is even no speak of knowingness 'there'??? I have no clue!)
So what came was an inner seeing somehow of: “OMG, I am NO-THING. NO- THING! It is so completely devoid of anything at all. Even “I’m a no-thing” is too much. I am not even Awareness! The timeless is not even there! And again, it was here when the body reacted by the urge to throw up because of the complete unknowing of what ‘I am’ became so clear, and then what culminated from that, was just falling into (so to speak) this beautiful unexpected seeing that Ejaia – the very IDEA of Ejaia is so beautifully and perfectly included. Ejaia even as an idea or character in a story could not be pulled apart from IT – for it came from IT. A beautiful sweetness or love of Ejaia was felt. And this quiet sense arose that Ejaia is just a beloved expression inseparable from the Whole ---The Whole, expressing as an Ejaia.
What is subtly shifting now is that everything feels very close - very intimate, and there is an intuitive ‘knowing’ that arises here and there that somehow ‘I am’ at the deepest - the unknowable source of the display. I know how that may sound, but there is actually a felt humility and simplicity to it – nothing special to speak of, just this quiet love of THIS -- sensed as a perfect, complete, and unfathomable expression of SELF LOVE.
MUCH, MUCH LOVE AND GRATITUDE TO YOU ILONA!
how is it going? are there any doubts? are you through the gateless gate? how do you see now, was there ever a self, a me, i that woke up?
and love. so delighted for you...
how is it going? are there any doubts? are you through the gateless gate?
Thank you for your sweet words!
It is going so well. I love the timing here on asking about doubt.
As I notice the old tendencies that come back to pay a visit and then the doubts that arise as a result; I actually decided yesterday that I adore doubt itself, and I hope it sticks around forever.
To explain; it seemed there was no contact with anything that was so clear before (which is so ridiculous to say, because what knows this, right!?) but on the other side of that, in being so convinced in the experiential argument which seemed like legitimate proof; strong doubts arose and then anger and fear and all the thoughts that things were back to the way they were and that something serious needed to be done. The seeking engine revved into high gear as panic set in. And without going into all the details of how I was going to accomplish this, :D))) there came a moment where the question arose: “Where did awareness go?”
As I pondered this as I looked outside at the trees, sky, clouds, and birds - all of them just silently being in this beautiful unaffected awareness that all this is in; it hit so hard that there is no problem here - and that in fact, there has never been a problem…ever! And that indeed, there is no such thing as a problem in Reality… everything just IS as IT IS...already.
As this was clearly seen, I felt that seeking aspect try so hard to reject what was staring at me right in the face, and in sitting with the strong resistance and not caving in to its story; I felt it give up—as if in defeat. In an instant I felt it all. I felt how it had tried so, so hard for so, so long, and my heart just filled with so much tenderness, compassion and gratitude for it, (which then was followed by bouts of hysterical laughter, then back to tears, then more laughter and tears, with my husband sitting nearby, which to anyone else they most likely would assume I had just gone completely mad!) :D)))
How do you explain what it is like to just realize that there is no reason to suffer here? How do you explain this love – this unexplainable love and deep tenderness and understanding that arises for an aspect you had resisted and tried so hard to get rid of, to just see all it had suffered for you, as it gives up and gives in so sweetly inside your being?
how do you see now, was there ever a self, a me, i that woke up?
Such a beautiful question!
Nothing was ever, or could ever, have been asleep. Awakeness Itself is what asleep-ness is in. PERIOD!
(This alone could keep you laughing forever!)
The notion of awake or asleep is THAT ITSELF and could be the only thing doing it. If anything, It ‘wakes’ (so to speak) to see what is always already timelessly awake, and that there is nothing but Itself that exists here.
Am I though the gateless gate?
All I can say to this, (which is truly in my heart that arises in answer to this question), and that is this…
May I always and forever question and doubt that I Am.
Sending much, MUCH LOVE and HUGS TO YOU ILONA!
Your letter brought tears to my eyes as I was reading it. And joy too :)
How do you explain that there is no reason to suffer? You can't. One needs to see it. That's what I'm doing here, since I saw it. There is no reason at all, all reason is mind created. And it is not true...
Tell me, are you ready to answer the final questions?
Have you seen through illusion of separate self?
Lots of love and a hug back.
So Sweet Ilona! I feel your heart! There is truly no greater gift!
I am ready for the questions.
here are the questions. Please answer in full when ready.
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
looking forward to your answers. :)) no rush.
much love. i feel your heart too. <3
I have to be honest Ilona; I am so sad that this is coming to an end. This has truly been the most rich and beautiful experience of my life!
Here are the answers:
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? How about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
The ‘me' idea is now seen as an inseparable notion or forgetting that arises and falls back into THIS (which is the screen of all that arises and falls) and is indeed completely inseparable from the source of which gave the idea of ‘me’ its life to begin with. There is no two. You can't pull one part of THIS away from THIS. A ‘me’ idea was IT doing it all along.
What is seen is that Ejaia is just another perfect expression Of and In THIS, and inseparable from the source of which she sprang, and is in fact held in such sweetness by That which is sensed that gives Life to it all.
Whatever THIS is, It appears to be doing it - expressing as all of this. Any claiming of separation would only be a thought 'in time' to label the already always timeless Here-ness and whatever has already arisen in and as and of it.
It is safe to say that the idea of Ejaia as a separate self… IS TIME.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
So beautiful was your exercise on UNIVERSITY which made this so clear.
It appears, in the most simplistic sense experientially, that a labeling process takes place that starts externally through observation, and then is adopted internally for survival.
When it starts? (Scratching head! And I honestly don't mean to be smart about this!) :D)) This is an interesting question in lieu of the fact that it seems very clear now that there is no continuum in reality – so really, any idea of a past is simply a thought arising now. (see what I mean!?) So given that - what I am about to say...I can’t prove, for it isn’t happening now, and did it ever really happen? This is such a mystery!
So what I am about to say, I will qualify by saying that it is really only a story that is appearing in this Timeless Here-ness that all arises in, and then falls back into, which seems more true than the story which comes and goes in it.
(But it is all still IT! OMG! This is just a riot! Ilona, I truly have no clue!) :D))
In the images that come to mind anyway; apparently there is a process by which THIS which is Whole and Undivided and expressing In and As the form of an individual – (a child in this case), gets labeled by all those it is surrounded by (who are also labeling themselves as themselves) and in particular – is labeled incessantly by the ones to whom it is completely dependent upon for its survival. It - (the child) is told that this is what it is and this is how it should be, until it conforms and caves in to the utter madness. I can only imagine how incredibly painful, disorienting, and confusing that must have been… forced into insanity for pure utter survival, to then slowly fall out of the direct intimacy of Life as It Is in Its Purity, Sweetness, Allowance, ISness, and Problem Free Playful Innocence.
What comes up so strongly around this right now, is just this immense sadness and compassion for all creation.
A feeling just arose right now of there being a time of trying to convince myself that I was what they were saying I was and that if I could just get myself to believe it, that would mean I was good, normal, and like them. The sense I am getting is that I thought there was something really wrong with the way I was and that I needed to be the way they said I should be so that I wouldn’t be so abnormal. (No wonder I have authority issues!) Ha ha!
There must have been a moment where finally, the faking to be what I wasn’t became a fixed belief, a fixed belief that I and I alone convinced myself of and made myself believe.
In the simplest of terms, I just simply forgot that I was pretending.
3) How does it feel to see this? Describe in detail.
Shocking in the sense that it truly is like nothing my mind could have ever imagined.
Everything is seen as Whole - Complete - Perfect. You simply cannot take one thing away, for even the taking away is still only it. There is no way around it. From a perspective of the experience of there apparently being a seemingly separate self, or as an experience of an inseparable whole, it is still It and only It, and is seen as equal expressions of This. No more, no less, only Itself.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?
I spent a lot of time contemplating this.
I would say: with great careful and compassionate care for so many reasons. Mainly, initially, because of the way the “I” thought mechanism 'behaves' and could easily retract back with a protective response and then run away to sustain itself. And/or, the opposite could happen as well, as it grabs on and conceptualizes the understanding to then potentially just become another identity structure - another trance – consciousness pretending to be a ‘no me’ while still very much in another spell in itself - which is just another form of pretending – before it believed itself to be ‘a me’, to now become entranced in the belief of a ‘no me’.
(And it is all It doing it! :D)))
What is really in my heart to say about this, (that it seems anyway that would have any chance at all of real success), and that would be to throw them into an inquiry of clear direct seeing for themselves like what has been done here with you. Otherwise, sadly, words that are written or spoken that are pointing to such a simple natural and experiential truth – (and dare I say - something that is so devoid of possessing anything remotely special or" spiritual” because it is seen as being nothing more than NATURAL ITSELF), can be so easily conceptualized, deified, idealized, and objectified by the mind and 'made' into something it is not – hence another trance to break free from.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? Was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? What exactly happened?
(In the post before last, I really put it into great detail, so if you don’t mind, I will just re-post it. But Let me know if you would like something fresh and I would be more than happy to!)
Clearly, “The shift” was (if there is such a thing as “was”) and continues to be (if there is such a thing as “continues to be”) :D))) - the gentle yet disquieting collapse of a life believed to be real - of a world believed to be real – and of others believed to be real.
What happened precisely came in a chain of events. The first domino to fall was when sitting in the Alive Perceiving Amness, and what was experienced and seen was that there was an alive field that the images –the movement of life and all that I took myself to be, are displayed upon. It was at that moment that it dawned that I am not what I thought I was in a most profound way. The physical reaction to this was literally the urge to throw up (which I have not ever experienced a reaction like this before).
In becoming intensely curious about this newly discovered alive field; I was able to pick up the immediate Here-ness of it. The timelessness of it. The immovability of it. I would say also that it seems completely unaffected or even concerned by identification or non-identification. The best word to describe is that It just IS. Nothing has ever happened to it. Nothing ever could, which provided such a contrast.
While diving into your questions and exercises, it was clear that even though this Timeless field seems to be apart and unaffected by all this, ALL OF THIS is completely inseparable from It. ALL of this is in it, as it, and of it. The next big shift was observing my husband without labels while just standing as that solid Timeless ground. What occurred is “how could he have any kind of reality?” There is no continuum. Time is an utter illusion. There is no such thing as time as a real thing. So then nothing can exist in a real way. And if he isn’t real – then I can’t be either.
That took a bit to digest!
The next big shift was when asked if Ejaia ever existed as a separate self, and seeing that there was still a belief hiding in there that at one time I thought she was real and separate. It was then in realizing how deeply asleep I was, and how deeply attached to that story of “my life and everything in it” – and indeed, the whole world, was. I would just cry as one thing after another would come to get blown away because by now, after spending enough ‘time’ in/as the timelessness, it was seen as a complete impossibility no matter how much I wanted to attach back to it that a real person could have ever had any kind of independent live reality. In fact, what became clear, is that not only the whole supposed’ life’ of Ejaia, but even the big bang – this whole universe and everything in it, happens NOW in this timeless Here-ness.
It is so unfathomable that it just takes the breath away.
The confusion and discomfort was so great at that point. (A lot of disorientation was going on), and oddly, at one point in this whole thing there was a noticing that even the timelessness – the IS(ness) was known. And what was that? That question just kept haunting me. So in sitting with “Oh my god! I didn’t even have a childhood!” there was an exact moment where is was intuited somehow, that what is holding even THIS (the awareness), is 'apart' from even that somehow, and whatever that is, is completely devoid of anything. There is no speck of anything there - even cognition. It was sensed that whatever that is, is the source of even the timeless field (or what you so beautiful call the Alive Perceiving Amness). And that devoid(ness) of ANYTHING – well, ‘it’ too cannot be pulled apart or separated out!
(And how to know what there is even no speak of knowingness there??? I have no clue!)
So what came was an inner seeing somehow of: “Oh My God!...I am NOTHING. NO - THING. It is so completely devoid of anything at all. Even “I’m a no-thing” is too much. I am not even Awareness! The timeless is not even there! And again, it was here when the body reacted by the urge to throw up because of the complete unknowing of what ‘I am’ became so clear, and what culminated from that, was just the falling into (so to speak) this beautiful unexpected seeing that Ejaia – the very IDEA of Ejaia is so perfectly included. Ejaia even as an idea or character in a story could not be pulled apart from IT – for it came from IT. A beautiful sweetness or love of Ejaia was felt. And this quiet sense arose that Ejaia is just a beloved expression inseparable from the Whole ---The Whole, expressing as an Ejaia.
What is subtly shifting also is that everything feels very close - very intimate, and there is an intuitive ‘knowing’ that arises like a whiff, and that is that somehow ‘I am’ at the deepest - the unknowable source of the display. I know how that may sound, but there is actually a humility to it because of the natural always was and always has been simplicity it – nothing special to speak of, just this quiet love of THIS -- sensed as a perfect complete and unfathomable expression of SELF LOVE.
wow, that was quite a process and quite a shift! I'm delighted to be part of it. and this is not an end at all, just a beginning. there is a whole community on facebook, many new friends to meet and share the journey. it all continues! the line was crossed and now there is a whole new world to explore, way much more fun than looking for what isn't.
please can i share our conversation on my blog, it will be of help to somebody else.
i can use your first name or whatever name you wish to use.
sending tons of love.
Sending so much love while basking in this deep deep gratitude for you. Again, all I can hope for is that somehow, some way, you will feel what is in my heart. There are truly no words for this priceless gift! You will always hold a special place in my heart!
And yes, of course...I would love to share the love on your blog, and using my name is just fine.
Ilona, it truly has been an amazing experience to be the recipient of such generosity and kindness, I can't even tell you...really! And I am so deeply moved and touched by what you and Elena have created along with all the other wonderful people in your community who's heart is so clearly to serve humanity and all without taking a fee. It is truly amazing really! -- so beautiful and so rare! A priceless gift to us that is beyond words! I send deep gratitude to all of them as well.
If you accept donations that would assist or benefit your community in any way in order to continue your efforts in sharing this gift to others, please let me know!
A deep, deep heart felt thank you!