No-self Is Not a New Kind of Identity, It's No Self At All

This was beautiful and heart opening. M came very ready and the process went smooth and quick. It does not mean it was easy, the meltdown and fear was there, disillusionment often comes with purging and burning. The fire was there, the readiness was there, all that she needed was final push. Enjoy.

M:
Dear Ilona:
I am so grateful for you and Elena.  I finished reading the book "Gatecrashers".  Thank you for giving it free on the internet.  So many things happened while reading and reflecting.  I am seeing so much fear coming up that I had no idea I even had.  I hear many people expressing fear and doubts, but I never felt them myself.  Until this week did I come to many recognitions and some amazing realizations.  I too like you started the advaita journey by reading my first book by Jed McKenna.  This was about six years and my life has never been the same.  I have only one real desire and that is to really know the truth. It appears you have assisted many people.  I don't feel I can go any further without help.  Do you have time?

Thank you for your honesty and no frills.  I am so tired of the the advaita speak.  I am not an intellect, I don't have the proper words for communicating this. But I do have the deepest love and desire to know.

I:
Hi M.

Thank you for email.
Glad to hear that the book has opened new view for you.
To go till the then one has to answer the question- is there a separate self at all?

So let's start from expectations, what is it that you expect at this point that the truth will do for you? What do you think this is all about? What do you want from seeing that there is no self at all?

Make a list and bring all of expectations with sincerity and honesty.

Sending love.

M:
Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with hopefully going through the "gateless gate".  I am so very grateful!!!!!

What expectations of what truth will give? 
Freedom from my repetitive thoughts that seem to 'control' me. 
To genuinely have zest for life, to be really excited about living.

I: it may or may not happen, depending on how much work you have to do to clean up the system after. it is not about eternal bliss.

M:
To see through  the veil once and for all.

I: Nice.

M: To see and feel the love and truly share with others.

I: this has nothing to do with love or heart opening. heart may or may not open with realization, but it is not a rule, that it does.
so leave this for now.


M: Trust in the universe, Freedom from conditioning.

I: freedom from conditioning comes with every belief released. we  are looking at the core belief here, that there is this i, me that owns conditioning. once that is seen as belief, not truth, then other conditioning starts to fall. it is not overnight process. may take months or years to settle it. so don't have your hopes high here, you do not wake up from conditioning, but to it, so finally it can start to clear.

trust in universe, yes.

I: What do I think this is all about?

M: I have been asking myself this question for a very long time.  When I was a teenager I would repeatedly ask what's this all about.  There has to be more than the struggle, there has to be something deeper than having a degree, having money, having IT all. Nothing has satisfied me...EVER!!!  No matter how successful or how many times I have gotten what I desired there is always something more.  This is when I really began this spiritual journey.  Now I think it's about being free and understanding who or what is this. 

I: no. it is about seeing that there is nothing to understand and no thoughts are reality. there is no who. as in zero. this does not come with cosmic download, it is rather ordinary. a loss of belief.

M: Why are we here, why do we exist? 

I: any answer to question why is a story. no story is reality. all is fiction. whatever you choose to belief about why is this or that is another belief.

M: Why is there so much belief in these thoughts in my head?

I: is it true? this is the best weapon in clearing them beliefs that have been accepted from others and your own trials to answer questions like what does it mean and why is this or that.

M: Sometimes I feel as though I am going crazy.  There are moments when I get it.  When I really see I am believing these thoughts and that there is an I a witnesser.  Then there are times when the I is not present everything is just happening, but then the story comes in with a vengeance and I am gone.

I: i does not exist, it is only a thought, but we will get to it.


I: What do I want from seeing that there is no self at all?

M: Peace.  Knowing, I mean really really knowing that we all are or come from love. 

I: you want to know truth or you want the truth to fit your ideal model of truth? don't expect an answer, you are going to see it for yourself.

M: To stop believing all the negative thoughts and stop beating myself up for the mistakes I have made.  Thoughts stopping from the past and projecting the future.  I am so aware of this happening inside.  It drives me crazy. I try to be a better person and that doesn't work. I try to stop that doesn't work.  I try to see there is no I doing anything, that doesn't stick.  It just makes me feel worse when I fail.

I: yes, i know that one. the stickiness goes, that is one thing that happens.

M: I know intellectually all the correct answers, but I don't know it from the "heart".  
I am not censoring anything here.  I am just typing without any concern for how it will look or if the grammar is correct. Too much work!  I am so tired of trying, trying, and trying. And yet here I am writing you and giving it my all.  Really no control at all, is there???  

I: good stuff.

M: I was so afraid to write you because I realized at the "heart" level this will be the end.

I: no it is not the end. it is a beginning.

M: I realized I really didn't want the "game" to be over. 

I: this is not game over, there is nothing to loose, only mind gets clear from misunderstandings, clear of assumptions. the game is only about to start.  :)

M: I can see now that before this I really wasn't ready.  I have embraced this fear and I am open to what is next.  There are a lot of I's and I am's in this, but I can't get caught up in the advaita speak. 

I: no need at all for advaita speak.

M: I am sure you can know where I am coming from.
Thank you so much for being here. I am very nervous but excited at the same time 

I: write to me what triggered you the most.
are you ready for the next step?
lost of love...

M:
Hi Ilona:
Thank you for responding so quickly.  What triggered me the most?

First: I always heard and it seems that when people really go beyond the "gate" they have this love for life (no matter what is happening). I used to think that there would be eternal bliss but after reading your book I realize that is not the case.

Heart opening: I think I really don't know what that means.  I have heard it referenced so much that I thought this would happen also.  I can let that one go too.

Freedom from conditioning: After it is truly seen that there is no "I", I do know that is only the beginning, what I mean by game over is that once it is seen there is no going back.  Just like using your wonderful example of Santa.  Also I suppose I mean that falling away will begin to occur.

It is about seeing that there is nothing to understand and no thoughts are reality.  I understand that asking the question who am I is useless here.  When the I belief is dropped there is no who!
No wonder after all these years that never worked!!!

you do not wake up from conditioning, but to it, so finally it can start to clear.  I haven't a clue how to wake up from conditioning?

Why do we exist is another belief?  I never looked at it that way

Is this True?  I tried the Byron, Katie method, it just frustrated me.  I mean really nothing is really true, but I still believe in the story sometimes.  Especially "i am not good enough"

I am so ready for the next step. Fear and anxiousness is arising, but at the same time I feel as though this is exactly where I am supposed to be, with you.

Thank you  sooooooooooooo much.  
I know I does not exist but not for real.

I:
Sweet M.
Thank you for answers.
I see you are ripe and ready to move on.

So.. Let this thought in.

There is no self at All in reality, no me as a general manager of life, no owner of life, no watcher, no I that is in control of anything that happens. None at all as in zero.
All there is if life happening by itself.


Sit with this for a while and write to me what thoughts and feelings, sensations come up.

Lots of love.

M: Dearest Ilona:

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you.  Thank you.


I have had this question in my mind for the past few days. Am I just trading I exist thought to I don't exist thought?

It has rung true to me in the past, that all along I have wanted the "I/Me" to experience the no "I".  So how can I trust this to happen to a me that doesn't exist?  I did the steps on your blog about three days before I contacted you and this is what happened.  I really saw there was no doer only happening occurring. The final straw was when you asked the question is there even a witness-er?  It just hit me like a ton of bricks.  It was the first time I had the sensations of openness, oneness, no second.  The rest of the evening I just sat in my chair in wonder, smiling.  

Then the next day I had a HUGE melt down.  The thoughts came flooding in with a vengeance. I really was loosing my mind.  You see after reading Jed's trilogy I went into a phase an annihilation.  I sold my house at a huge loss, sold almost all of my possessions and lived off my savings.  Feeling sorry for myself all the way through the process. Got a few jobs which I stayed at for a year and then moved on to another. Never being satisfied with all areas of my life.  Now this may seem like a sob story (which it is), but I knew somehow this was the only way for me to really, really know that I was committed to finding the truth.  So with that the "spiritual" journey really began.  It took me all this time to truly know that I would never be settled until I saw the truth. It took me to loose almost everything to really know that I can not find happiness in the external (now i see how ridiculous this is. Just another bloody story) .  

But... When I am feeling most out of sorts I beat myself to a pulp for making such stupid decisions.  Yes, there is no one here to do such a thing and yet here I am.  So after reading the story in your book about the husband and wife reading Jed's book and what the husband did, it made me feel like such an ass.  I realized I did all this for absolutely nothing.  It was as if I was punishing myself for all the success's I had. Spiritual people don't live awesome prosperous lives (what a butt head). After reading the husband story it just triggered what I had done also. which made me feel like an even bigger foooooool!!!!   I had this huge melt down and went into my I am a "failure" I am so unhappy story. Crying went on for hours (no exaggeration). The next day I couldn't function.  I rarely watch TV.  And here I sat in front of the TV for nine hours.  I have never done this ever!  I just couldn't think, I was numb. How in the hell does one have such an amazing experience and then go to the darkest place ever.  This is when I knew I was so fearful of loosing the SELF.  My God I had no idea how much fear I had stored up. That evening I said this is it.  I am going to finish reading your and Elena's' book and then write to Ilona and see what happens.  

I am so sorry for being so verbose, I just felt it was important for you to see how sometimes I get it and sometimes it's like I haven't gotten any progress whatsoever. 

So these are the sensations that come up... fear and excitement, right now at this moment I understand (but not a seeing) there is no one driving the bus...I am still believing "I" exist somewhere inside of this body/mind.  
Some of this "I" belief has worn down from the other day despite the meltdown.  I feel like I am on the edge, I just need the push.  No actually there is a readiness that is felt somewhere. 


This is freedom, isn't it?? 
There is no self at All in reality, no me as a general manager of life, no owner of life, no watcher, no I that is in control of anything that happens. None at all as in zero. 
All there is if life happening by itself. 

I:
Hi M.

We are not trading I to no-I here. You are looking to see what is really going on.

When you realized that Santa wasn't real, was it traded to no-Santa? ( or whatever magical fantasy you had as a child. )

There is no I and there never was. No- self is not a new kind of identity, it's no self at all.

Thank you for writing how your days were going before you contacted me. It's not easy when the whole belief structure is crumbling. Meltdown is often a case.

But it has passed. This too shall pass. There is no permanent state.

Ok, now please focus on the phrase that I gave you in the previous message and answer not from the past, not from thoughts about what happened, but what does it feel right when you read it and let it sink in now.
For a few minutes consider that this is real possibility. There never was a self, that means there is nothing to loose.

Do this little exercise- Close your eyes. Imagine you are holding a melon between your hands.  Imagine it vividly, shape, weight, texture... Hold it there. 

Open your eyes. 

What happened to the melon? Was it replaced with no-melon? Did it disappear? Did it get lost?

THIS is the same case with the self. The self is imagined.

M: Hello Dear One:
There is no I and there never was. No- self is not a new kind of identity, it's no self at all.
Ah yes this makes total sense.  Thank you for the clarity.  I just want to make sure I am not fooling myself into another belief.

When I focus on the phrase: 

"There is no self at All in reality, no me as a general manager of life, no owner of life, no watcher, no I that is in control of anything that happens. None at all as in zero. 
All there is if life happening by itself."  

It feels true but then I think I am just convincing myself it is true. I need to investigate there never was an I. Quite honestly this is where I get stuck.  It still feels like I am adopting another concept.

I am going to let this settle, it's not like this isn't the first time I have heard this.  I just haven't seen it, i don't know to further/beyond!!!!!! Frustration is arising...but I am not giving up until it is SEEEN.

Thank you so much.
love, love M

I: thank you for answer.

let's look deeper now. of course you have heard this concept, but until it is seen, it is a concept.
so tell me, what would be lost if that was true.
what is happening not on automatic?
what is it that frustration happening to?

what does word me point to?
what is i?

M: Hello Ilona:
Once again Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. It seems this is all I live for right now.

let's look deeper now. of course you have heard this concept, but until it is seen, it is a concept
Yes this is exactly how it is right now.

so tell me, what would be lost if that was true. 
If this is true that there is no "I", then there is indeed nothing to loose, it never was in the first place.  Somehow I know this but a "seeing" not yet.

what is happening not on automatic?
I have to make an effort to keep believing in everything, especially that the "I" exists somewhere inside of me. It is exhausting.

what is it that frustration happening to?
Me believing in the contents of the thoughts

what does word me point to?
A belief that me exists inside my head

what is i?
I don't know, I can't seem to find it, but it is still believed it exists.

Damn Ilona I feel so close and yet sooooooooo far.

Thanks for taking the time with me.  I can't tell you enough how long I have waited for someone to help me see through this.

love  

I: In order to see you need to look. See if it's true, notice what confirms it in your experience, look with eyes, not with mind. It's not about finding explanation but seeing it in your own experience.

So right now, is there an I anywhere in the room, in the body?
Is there batman hanging around?
How do you know he is not?

Same with I. It's is imagined. Can that which is imagined be seen, experienced through senses?

Look and notice, what is here, what can be experienced, compare to imaginary characters. How is M different from batman?

"I have to make an effort to keep believing in everything, especially that the "I" exists somewhere inside of me. It is exhausting."
Is this not on automatic?

"what is it that frustration happening to?
Me believing in the contents of the thoughts"

Look closer here. What is this that is labeled frustration.? Sensations in the body, right?

Are these sensations happening to a me?

"what does word me point to?
A belief that me exists inside my head"

A belief. Yes. Other thoughts ABOUT me, but is there a real me?
Does table need you to believe in it to be here?

"what is i?
I don't know, I can't seem to find it, but it is still believed it exists".

I is a thought.
Me is a thought.
Self is a thought.
Batman is a thought
Table is a thought.

The difference between those thoughts that one of them point to something real, while others point to imaginary stuff. Can you see that?

M:
Hi Ilona:

I re-read the questions from last time and realized the question what is happening not on automatic?
I answered it as what is automatic in my mind.  I realized what you were really asking.  After sitting quietly I realized everything seems to be automatic.  Even my belief that there is an I thinking.  It's very subtle but I can't see anything that "I" do, it does seem to be just happening.

I will sit and investigate and see what is seen before responding. Look with eyes, yes.

Thank you for your patience.
love M

I:
Yes, notice how body reacts to stimulus, how choices are made, how everything works on itch follows scratch  manner.

Try this-
Lift your left arm above the head 

Do it now 

Did it happen? 
Did you choose to do it or not? 
Did it happen and then mind kicked in evaluating what happened? 

Good place for observation is shower :)

Write to me when ready. Take your time. I'm here to assist.

Much love.

M:
Hi Ilona:
Okay I am on fire.  I just finished reading your reply previous to this one.
Yes, yes and yes, I is imagined.  I can only stay "alive" as long as I is believed to be true. Just like Santa, Santa here today (only in thought),gone as soon as the thought is dropped, the real joke is that it (I) never existed in the first place.

I: exactly. nothing happened to Santa, the joke was on a kid.

M: I am stuck in this automatic.  Is everything automatic, even the thought I exists somewhere in the body?

I: see if you can find what is NOT on automatic.

M: Sensations are happening to the body, but then the mind comes in and claims its happening to me.  This is when the story comes in and I take ownership of all actions.  Something as simple as raising my arm to what a bad decision I made five years ago.

"I is a thought.  
Me is a thought. 
Self is a thought. 
Batman is a thought 
Table is a thought."
The only way an I survives is through a thought there is an I. An I needs to be believed in order for it to exist.   Yes this is seen.

I: even if it is believed it does not exist. remember Santa? when did he exist? it is a misunderstanding. that is all. unquestioned assumption.

M: Is it like this?  Sensation happens then action happens, without any effort at all. Is it just the mind (habit, conditioning) taking ownership of the action or outcome.

I: yes.
mind is a labeling machine.

try this exercise.


http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html
write to me what you learned.

M: see if you can find what is NOT on automatic.
Okay for real??  everything is automatic??  
I had done the label exercise last week (that was when i had that huge opening), realizing that it is all happening and not to a me.  So I did it again and it is seen no one hearing, typing, breathing, to infinity.  This is becoming more obvious.  

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?  So everything that has happened or is happening is being labeled by the mind and a good outcome or a bad outcome.  The content of the thoughts "beat" up the label I and we are back in the saddle of I am this I am that. At the end of it all its imagination and believing all thoughts are true.

Is this going to stay with me?

Thank you seems so trite to say to you.  much love  m
..............

Hello Ilona:

I am now facing the reality that there is no I.  I really don't know where to go from here.  Questions have seem to have subsided a bit.  But I still feel a stickiness to this identity.  I am feeling a bit lost.  It's funny how I feel more connected to you than people I am with daily.  I know there is no loss in the I since it never existed, but I am feeling hollow.  

This is weird, I thought I had responded to you but I don't see a sent email.  I haven't given up.  I am not "stopping" until this is clearly unequivocally seen.
 love m

I: Keep staring.
What is identity? How would you define it?
How would you define what is batman's identity? Has he got one?
Is there real identity?

Sending love.

M: Hi Ilona:
Ah.  There is no action figure.  It is the same fictitious thought as an I existing.  I get this now. But the last few days I am feeling numb, empty does this pass?  Even fear arises, I can never go back in believing in the I. Does this need 'time' to settle.
love m

"yes it is so simple, that mind sometimes refuses to accept it as this. it loves to complicate everything, create and solve problems, so it may be threatened by the fact, that there is really nothing to figure out, so it tries to hold on to whatever it can, so it would not disappear. funny thing is, it does not disappear, it only gets clearer. thinking slows down and there is a deeper sense of peace. yes, all search is about ending the search, but when there is a real possibility that it may actually end, there is panic, as there is so much invested in that searcher identity, that it is difficult to even consider the possibility for it to be waste of time and life. everyone is different, your experience is unique, trust that. all is unfolding as it should."

I just finished reading what you wrote on your blog.  You described to A, exactly what has been happening the past few days. Question arising this can't be this simple.  It is indeed this simple.  I am so used to grabbing onto this alleged identity.  All concerned that I will lose myself to this "awakening" I will disappear.  I won't be able to relate to my friends my sisters, workmates.  Today panic arose, depression  all the old patterns of "my identity", old stories that have become my identity, my friends my foe.  
Trust...yes this is unfolding as it should.
Thank you, much love m

I: dear one, everything passes, there is no such thing as permanent state. all is a flux, all is one movement. to see that, get out into nature, watch, how everything moves in synchronic manner, how everything wiggles, including your body and thoughts. all this movement is happening effortlessly, notice nothing moves clouds, nothing blows wind, nothing moves trees, nothing moves your legs and arms, all just happens.

when you spend some time in nature, write to me, what you noticed. is there anything separate from life?

sending love and a hug.

M:
Yes, Thank you Ilona.  I just finished reading your blog with A.  So much clarity.  Thank you for sharing. I was doubting the past day and it has already passed.  Just being able to write you and have guidance has been exactly what is needed. I will write you later.  thank you 
a feeling of love is coming that has not been felt before.  thank you 
.................

M:
Hi Ilona:
I had some time to spend in nature at the beach. It is seen with out doubt that all does indeed happen. Birds fly across the water, just skimming the surface with out any effort.  One plucks a fish out of water and flies away. A flock of birds comb the beach on foot and peck away at the sand.  There is no I functioning just happenings. I sit on the bench and then start walking, it wasn't thought 'oh I think I'll walk now', it literally just happens.  I look across the ocean toward horizon, in awe of all of this mystery. Life just happening without the presence of an I.  No commentator, no what if's.  Just what is.  Seamlessly with out effort.  Thoughts came "in" and left just as gently. I have seen the metaphor a million times-thoughts are like clouds.  It is seen here that thoughts are exactly like this. Clouds don't affect the sky anymore that thoughts affect the body/mind. Effort seems to be less each day.  It is not to say that life is now effortless, it always was and is this way, flowing, moving, happening.  Yes it is seen somehow, and yet there is no I seeing.

I: oh that is just beautiful. yes, it is seen, and there is no i doing seeing. well done.

how is your everyday life going, did you notice any changes, big or subtle?
are you ready for the final questions, can you confirm that the shift has happened?

sending love.

M:
Dear Ilona:
I can't thank you enough for taking the time to guide me through this.  The seeing can not be unseen.  I also see what you were talking about before, that this is just the beginning.  
There was no huge event per-say, there was a seeing that there never ever was an I, a self to get anything.  At first I freaked out, (as i had described to you before).  Once the fear passed and it was realized that this to is just a thought being believed, all was well. 

Everyday life seems to be more alive and flowing.  Everything is happening as the same before, but there is a certain taste of life that appears. It's almost as if it's more gentle, even though a lot of activity has been happening.  When reactions happen they come and go easier.  It's almost as if its a tangible intelligence that has and always was running the show.  Things are taken less and less personal, it is becoming more automatic. I always go back to where is this character who is taking this to heart. It is becoming more automatic. Don't get me wrong I know there is more to "burn".  But the frustration of "getting" this has dropped, it can't even be described as peace it just is.

Of course doubt sets in when you ask can I confirm that a shift has happened.  I have trusted you this far so let's keep going.
So much love to you Ilona

I:
Oh yes, I can see that what you describe rings true.  :))) delighted... I feel you.

Sounds that you are ready for the last questions.
Please answer in full when ready. As you see, in full.

M:
Dear Ilona:
Grateful to you.
Before answering these last questions I wanted to confirm when the seeing actually happened.  
I asked you this question: I have had this question in my mind for the past few days. Am I just trading I exist thought to I don't exist thought? 
You responded:

"We are not trading I to no-I here. You are looking to see what is really going on." 
"When you realized that Santa wasn't real, was it traded to no-Santa? ( or whatever magical fantasy you had as a child. ) 
There is no I and there never was. No- self is not a new kind of identity, it's no self at all".   This was the final push.  I knew then to never doubt what I had seen.  That this truly can not be unseen. Oh my God so much love here!!!

As it is seen in full

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
NO I, at all anywhere.  Not only that it is seen there are no I's in this world, there is no separate entities running around this planet. It just appears to look that way.  When it is seen that no i, me, mine exists it becomes one appearance, no actually it doesn't become this, it always was this way. No doers, no planners, controllers, and no observing. Yes habits arise and judgments come.  But the stickiness gets lessened. The judgements are not taken seriously. 

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of a separate self is that we all have this belief that there is an I inside this body/mind.  That anything that happens to this imagined me is very very serious, life threatening.  We are taught to guard, protect and fight to keep it safe.  We are and have been willing to die, lie, kill anything to keep this belief alive.  We have created an identity, that is so strong that we live for years maybe even lifetimes to keep it in tact.  We have created the illusion that we are separate and I am better than or lesser than someone else. There is no in-between we think we are either worthy or unworthy, depending on the story at that moment .  

Why do we believe and buy into this...we had no choice. When it starts and how it works?
As soon as we are able to understand me and mama, the birth of separation.  We are taught through words and believe all these words to be the absolute truth.  How could we not...mom wouldn't steer us wrong. I am baby and you are mommy, separate right from the start.  My body, my stuff, my thoughts, my words. Words turn into thoughts and then thoughts have content which is what we think is really happening. This is imagined.  This imagination actually thinks it is thinking, doing, living.  Ha!!!!  This is the big illusion.  Thoughts happen but the interpretation, the commentator is all imagination.    

 3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
Initially I didn't trust that seeing happened. When you said no-self ever existed never was!!! I knew without a doubt this is true.  Now we could get all technical about there is no I to get this, and this would be true.  But all we have are words to express what is happening.  There is such a flow (and I don't mean an airy fairy, fantasy flow) that is happening.  Somehow it is seen here how magical everything really is.  That it is indeed a mystery and how amazing that is. I am authentically excited about what is here now and now!  There is a deep gratitude for being, living.  Life in life-in.  I have this sweet gentle smile.  It's almost as if its coming from inside and yet it has no beginning and no stopping point.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
I would have them do what you did with me. Write down everything.  Really investigate what is true and what is imagined.  To look and see. Don't trust the mind it is very tricky. Question everything that comes up. Most important ask can you find this I, this me that you think is running the show.  I have tried this solo and I knew I needed guidance.  Here it was needed to have a guide, it just happened to be Ilona. Trust that you will be guided by someone who knows the truth, you will know who that is.   Lastly I would say this is not a passive investigation: it takes brutal honesty and commitment. Writing, crying, laughing oh hell all emotions may arise.   I would have them go to your website and check it out.  See it what they read rings true.  I am not saying you and Liberation Unleashed is the end all...but this "i" was ready and somehow I just knew this was exactly where i was lead to. 

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
Well I could say it was gradual but there was a moment when all belief in the I was seen to be imagined.  BUT after this clear seeing...Doubt came in with a vengeance, it can't be this easy, it can't be this obvious.  Come on M, your kidding yourself.  I looked at that thought and realized the fear i had been holding was coming out of the body.  I thought for sure i was going to vomit, be sick never recover.  Be a vegetable, no mind, no identity.  How will i live.  And on and on.  For a full day I was incapacitated.  That evening I looked again. Who or where is this entity that is going to suffer all these horrible things.  I didn't care what happened if I die or if I am going to loose it all, so what.  I could not go on like this any longer.  So I looked again:  I realized I exchanged the belief from 'I exist' to 'I am my identity', thinking this thought was different.  I wrote to you what was happening and you gently pushed me a little further to see through this experience of doubt.  You just cut through the story and said

"Thank you for writing how your days were going before you contacted me. It's not easy when the whole belief structure is crumbling. Meltdown is often a case. But it has passed. This too shall pass. There is no permanent state." 

 This was not the first time i heard this, but it was the only time i saw this.  Yay :)  Woah! That was exactly what i needed. Honestly I would have probably convinced myself that I was fooling myself.  This is never going to be seen by you (unworthy), not  intelligent enough, not enough, not enough. With your questions I really had to look at what i was believing, what i was expecting from all of this.  You were there at the crucial moments.  I don't now how this all happens but it did and it does.

I see this is indeed the beginning and for the first time ever I am excited about life without a reason.  My God, Ilona, there needs to be a deeper word for the gratitude i have for you being here. 
Now i know why you sign off correspondence each time with; so much love. I see this too.
so much love, m

I:
Dear M, your email touched my heart. you say we need a deeper word to express gratitude, from where i see, there is no need for words, it is felt. that can never be expressed in any way, but it reaches out from heart to heart, like a little flame. :)

may i have your permission to post our conversation on my blog, so that it may be of benefit to someone else and i can get you into the groups on facebook, for continuous support after this crossing the line.

let me know if you ok to use your name. if not, it can be changed to whatever you prefer.

sending tons of love.

M:
Dear Ilona;
Of course you can post this conversation.  You can just use my first initial that would be great. 
Yes after care as you have termed it is needed here. I know this has to settle and I am so excited about going deeper.  It is the beginning. Thank you for your availability.  It seems there a lot of people out there that need to have someone guiding them.  There is nothing out there like this.  What is happening here is such a gift. Heart to heart, it is felt, can't be described...much love going out to you.

images from http://www.advancedphotoshop.co.uk/user/Sylwiaa and photo of sea by ilona.