This was an interesting conversation. It took me a while to make this readable, as English is not Alessandro's first language. Neither is mine, so i could understand him. This was great investigation and of course, it ended up in seeing. Happy to share this with everyone.
Alessandro Hi Ilona!
For about one year now I'm reading your work on the internet and I even tried forum, i had a long session with Yari on LU where i got stuck at the point: " now you have to see this directly "..
I'm still here and i came to the conclusion that this is something "i" can't do.
If me, Alessandro, is living just in the thoughts and after these thoughts there is nothing/only life, how can I see this?
I can only come at the conclusion that me is a thought living in concepts and refers the spontaneous happening to a virtual I but this doesn't end in a different perspective of life, unfortunately.
Just wanted to share this with you!
Have a nice day,
Alessandro
July 30
Ilona
Hi Alessandro, thanks for message and sorry for delay with answer.
Yes, I, a thought, can not do anything. And there is no I that thought points to, it's a concept, not an entity. It is not living in concepts, it is a concept. And it's a useful one, for sure. But there is no virtual I.. Same way as there is no virtual Santa.
What comes up here, when you read this?
What do you expect that should happen?
Take a close look at expectations. What do you think that should be different then what is?
July 31
Alessandro
Hi Ilona!
Thank you, thank you! So nice to have the possibility to share a little with you!
What comes up?
I, I, I..since this I is born seems that all thoughts refer to a ME and this me is a link to this sense of presence as my body/mind. When you ask me who are you? The first thoughts come up and point to the body - with a me driving it from the mind. I can watch all this and see that this i is a reference and not a separate entity but the concept/ belief in a me as this body/ mind remains in the background.
Memory, patterns of thoughts, personality, all thoughts in the end, come up in the scene together with this sense of me separate from you.
Where this separation is taking place? Only in thoughts, seems, but this sense of ME doesn't stop also if this is only a believed thought.
The expectation is to finally enter the gate and realize clearly what are thoughts and what is the reality after that!
With love,
Ale
Ilona
Focus on sense of aliveness, being, is it personal? Is it i? Is it a separate entity? Does this sense disappear if you don't name it I?
Take a look, where thoughts come from? Are you doing the thinking or thoughts appear and disappear by themselves? Do you know what the next thought will be?
August 1
Alessandro
I is not personal, Ilona. I is labeled as personal, i can (label) it as ME but all this labeling maybe appear after a feeling of simply being, maybe other thoughts come as beliefs, maybe other concept enter in the scene and maybe i focus so much in following this thoughts that the sense of presence is covered, but if i see all this with a distance i can't refer this sense of presence, this aliveness to any label. Labels are seen as concepts without self, only thoughts, words.
Without any concept the aliveness is not personal, is just life.
Take a look, where thoughts come from? Are you doing the thinking or thoughts appear and disappear by themselves? Do you know what the next thought will be?
Ilona
Good stuff. Thank you.
Ok, so what do you expect to happen?
Alessandro
Thank you, Ilona. Thank you for your time, it's a gift, really.
Once I started to look close at this ME, i understood a bit that this voice talking all time in the head is only a voice. It's like if I can't trust or believe my self anymore just because this self is not more clear witch is/ what is.
I feel like i'm in a process of elimination of what is untrue and if there is an expectation about it- finish the job once and for all.
Ilona
Yes, it all starts with cutting trough all the bullshit that we are used to believing. When you feel that it is enough of lies and all you want is truth, truth reveals itself. Elimination of beliefs one by one is a hard process, you can hit the bulls eye and focus on one question only- is there an i? In experience, right here right now? What happens when you ask this question?
Alessandro
Less than 2 thoughts, one: there is no I , second there is, it's me; after this two thoughts only sounds, feelings in the body, this typing to you, objects around, no I found here in reality.
Ilona
Where is i found?
Alessandro
It's not found at all!
There is talking about it but is living also not in thoughts, is a concept, a number of thoughts refer to this I and the story is only believed because we never question where this I is in reality. We believe it until we go to search for it and see that it's no where.
This I is living in thoughts is also a concept, we have to admit that this I is also coming and going like all thoughts, and what comes and goes can not be permanent, actually what never moves and that always remains is also between two thoughts, the truth.
Is i coming and going like a thought or is it a thought?
Alessandro
Thought! actually a word said in a thought, nothing more than that.
Ilona
Yes!! Can you say that it is clear, there is no i at all in reality?
Alessandro
Yes! Yes! I can say that.
Where this I can be?
I is a thought and as thought it's not real.
Ilona
how does it feel to see this?
Alessandro
Very strange, it's like seeing that thoughts are coming in the present moment as everything else, there is no possession, no owner of nothing, just life flowing with it's content.
Actually the content is life it'self without owner!
Ilona
yes!
What was the last thing that pushed you over?
Alessandro
There is no I at all, simple!
Stop talking about Santa or not?
Ilona
hahaha, Santa is real.
Alessandro
You were right, nothing changes as it always been like this!
Ilona
Yes, exactly. All is as it is. It's a shift in perception.
How would you describe this to someone that is curious?
Alessandro
Hi, want to share this:
There is no self, no I, only life,
always changing, never moving.
There is not separation at all, it's a concept, not separated self.
Can't be subtraction nor addition, indivisible one life.
One life in this present moment.
With love,
Ale
..........................................
Alessandro
Hi Ilona,
Sometimes i disappear, no thoughts or body appear.
Then they come back and also the concept of time.
It is very difficult to put that in words but also the time is seen as a concept and in the end unreal.
And also when the show runs again it's seen that there is no such thing as personal.
Like life is one, it's content is also not separate, how can be?
Ilona
Yes, you describe it well.
Where are you from? What is your native language?
Alessandro
Good morning!!
I'm italian but is now 10 years i'm living in Holland..
Thank you Ilona!
Alessandro
Nothing changes in a sense because life runs as always with all it's content.
This is happening all the time but now is seen as empty.
It's empty and full at the same time.
Seeing it's emptiness brings a sense of lightness because it's seen that there is nothing to grasp, no goal as there is not doer.
Have a nice day!!
August 4
Alessandro
I got such a heavy mind from yesterday when I had a deep confrontation with my girlfriend.
She got a big reaction when i told her that she does't exist and she answered me that i got an ego trip, and that if she didn't then how about our child, the little one, how to take care of him?
It was too late to tell her that life takes care of everything including her reaction to the situation and even her mind and thoughts at that moment.
I don't know anymore if the gate is passed or if the identification was really be broken, Ilona.
.........................
August 6
Ilona
Hi ale, how is everything? Is there any doubt at all? I think we should wrap this up and if you want to join support groups, we got to finish the process.
Alessandro
Hi Ilona,
Thanks for your interest in my case, I give thanks every day for that.
How is everything ?
It's chaotic really, the mind fights with itself like if it's now split into two and on one side there is a lot of questioning and on the other side there are answers, like a monologue between the mind. If at one side little clarity comes, even that clarity is discussed internally and it causes a lot of stress.
Yesterday evening in bed I could not sleep so the mind was full of nothing.
it was seen as all the craziness streaming and also how much power the ego has to control and manipulate the situation.
If I agree that all this is empty on the other hand the mixture of thoughts and feelings in the body seems to win the battle.
I felt not able to just watch but got more involved within the bad situation.
Also i got lost in this thought:
If this voice (this voice that always had the power of control and cover the moment) is not me, where is me?
How can I contact the real self?
If mind is mind and ego is projection,
Why all this questioning, how to look without Mind?
Yes, is time to finish this if that is even possible, tell me what to do, can I stay please with you in this process?
My life is very busy, i got 4 kids, two are less than 2 years old and i work hard for my family. After this I can invest every moment free i have to explore the truth.
With love
Ale
Ilona
You say "this voice that always had the power of control and cover the moment" take a look, had this voice actually ever had control, or just claimed control? Is this voice controlling what is happening right now?
There is no real self to be found. There is no false or real self, none as in zero. You don't contact the real self, but investigate if there is a real self.
There is no ego either.
Neither such entity as mind. There are only thoughts arising one after another, one at a time.
How to see without mind? Just look, feel, sense, experience. Thinking is too part of what is going on, but it's not the whole experience. There is experience happening through the senses. Take a look, is there a self in seeing? in hearing? in tasting, smelling, touching? or is it just a thought?
August 6
Alessandro
you say "this voice that always had the power of control and cover the moment" take a look, had this voice actually ever had control, or just claimed control? is this voice controlling what is happening right now?"
Actually this voice claims control all the time, this voice that calls itself "me" pretends to be the owner of the action and reaction, that the body mind displays in this exact moment.
Doing this all the time and reinforcing this with all the thoughts, there is the feeling that a separate self exist.
This voice actually and the me are same, only voice is telling me in the end, only discontinuous voice telling me.
Labeling all the objects around is a way to give them a standard model, a concept.
In this way what is seen, actually from nobody, gives also the feeling of knowing and referring this to a me (mental pictures and memories and expectation) gives the sense of continuity of this me.Watching this without interfering brings to seeing that this me is only voice, yes.
The feeling of controlling right now and most of the time is only because there are same reactions of the body to same thoughts.
Seeing what is actually happening and thinking without a real reference point makes a different picture of the present moment.
There are moments that is also seen how the body acts without thoughts trying to reference or faster than the mind can think.
there is no real self to be found. there is no false or real self, none as in zero. you don't contact the real self, but investigate if there is a real self.
After thought, without thought, between thought there is not self, is also funny that we call real, as if we try to split in two again.
there is no ego either.
neither such entity as mind. only thoughts arising one after another one at a time.
Ego and mind are also just thought making a goal for a seeker in the future and past (something to find, mind/me).
But how could we loose what we are? Is that also a paradox and an other concept in the end.
how to see without mind? just look, feel, sense, experience. thinking is too part of what is going on, but it's not the whole experience. there is experience happening through the senses. take a look, is there a self in seeing? in hearing? in tasting, smelling, touching? or is it just a thought?
Seeing only, without outside or inside (concept), is silent, there is only seeing.
So is for all the senses, thoughts, labeling are in addition to what happen in the moment as one.
August 7
Ilona
We did not lose what we are, it's impossible. We created an illusion of what we are not and believed it to be the truth.
Is there an entity doing being or just sensation of being, aliveness, never off, always here now?
Alessandro
Aug 7
If I create the illusion of a separate independent self but I does't really exist, also not in thoughts, than is the mind self doing the all game and the mind self also should see that this I is only a concept? Even the believing is only memory and expectation in the mind.
Is there an entity doing being or just sensation of being, aliveness, never off, always here now?
"There is a constant feeling of aliveness, apparently OFF during the sleeping or not labelled from the sleeping mind seems.
I mean that without mind there are no memories in my experience and also no sense of being during the sleeping.
There is no entity doing the being but a false labeling of this sense of aliveness that happens independent like " i feel good' or "this is ME", only thoughts, comment, a voice that make the illusion of "me feeling".
Actually without me there is only feeling and maybe thoughts. Feeling does't need any ME to be sensed."
Ilona
Aug 7
Are you aware of aliveness ever being off? Take a look in the morning when you wake up, was there a moment, where was no being?
Language is only trying to express the best it can. But it's limited. And when it's taken for granted the labels get assumed to be objects, subjects. Some labels point to objects. But what does word me point to? Anything that can be experienced through senses? Or just like unicorn- a fantasy in the head?
Take a look with each sense, is I, me in there?
Sending love.
Alessandro
Aug 7
Now i got lost in a stupid thing:
I just said, i smoke a cigarette and than i go back to work.
After the thought it happens that i'm smoking so the mind drives the body in same way?
It is not always automatic, the thought was before the action, is that true?
Ilona
Aug 7
Can you catch, if there was an impulse to do so and the thought after, then action, or thought, impulse and action? Or none? Or all together?
When you walk from A to B, is it thought driving one leg in front of the other?
How about micro movements of the body right now?
Is thought managing breathing?
Investigate how intention, thought and action work together. Keep an open mind.
Alessandro
Aug 8
Are you aware of aliveness ever being off? Take a look in the morning when you wake up, was there a moment, where was no being?
Aliveness has never been off, when I get up in the morning everything is as it's always been.
Language is limited, yes. I understand what you say. Label points to an object in the sense that that object is reduced to a concept. We say car for example and immediately come with that other concept, like a car has an engine, tires etc, that is also part of the concept, another label.
We can say that in this case the thought refers to a real object, also if car, tires, red color are only words. In the same way thought says "me" but with a little investigation we can see that this time the thought refers to nothing else than a mental image, nothing real.
It's very effective to me to hear that I is a mental fantasy because it is, me doesn't refer to anything real. Me and unicorn have the same propriety only the me is believed for so long and the unicorn as always been a fantasy.
Looking at the senses is very surprising to me just because when I focus on one sense, doesn't matter which, it's clear that there is no need for any me to sense.
Sense does it's work without any self, any me, the labeling of what is sensed comes immediately later and maybe some thoughts during. When there is seeing, this seeing doesn't need any me, it's only seeing, same with hearing or tasting, the thought is saying: I see, I hear, this comes later on as comment of what is happens.
Even the body doesn't need this me to control it, we assume that we control the body but like with the example of the cigarette of yesterday, actually you were right, it's difficult to see in the beginning but first there is an impulse (nothing to do with thoughts) than a thought pretend to be the owner of the impulse and then the action.
This is much more difficult to see all the time because we take for granted that we are the self moving things but is not the truth, the impulse come like the thoughts without control and after that we label everything.
Reading this I was thinking that:
Sometimes there is an impulse of something to do but after that a thought comes telling to not do it and so I don't do it.
Actually even if is difficult to catch it, there must be first and other impulse stopping the first one and also thoughts are coming later and tries to take the ownership of what actually happens, just without control and owner.
Sending a lot of love and gratitude,
Ale
..........................................
Hi Ilona,
Just " thought " to write you.
I'm still, as much as i can, investigating how it works between impulse, thought and action happening.
I notice how many things the body is doing on automatic, also if for example the mind is telling the story of me in other words.
I'm also watching expectation about what it is supposed to be, sometimes patterns of thoughts about the me as this body comes back, then watching deeply the content of the thought: "you are the body"- i notice that there is the body, but where is this me?
Love
Ale
Ilona
Aug 10
Cool, take a look and tell me, what is not on automatic.
Hehe, there is no "this me". That's the whole point. There never was a me, it's mind created image. Take a look closer how mind creates images and how an image is different from what is happening, what ISN'T versus what IS.
Close your eyes and imagine you are in the kitchen. Just visualize and look around, notice where things are put. See the space from different angles.
This is an image, it can trigger feelings and contractions <-> expansions.
Open eyes and see how a image can be created and explored in the mind.
Go to the kitchen and look at same things that you saw in the image, how does imagining and experiencing same things differ?
See where I'm going? Me is an image. It is not what is ever happening. THIS is what is happening.
Write to me your observations from this exercise.
Much love.
Alessandro
Aug 11
Hi !
Just two words, i will be back with more in the next day's:
When i tried with the kitchen image i noticed that a mental image is made of memories, it can trigger a familiar feeling. this familiarity is also based on memories and attachments of another image, that me image.
Opening the eyes and focusing only on what is seen became clear that an image in the mind is only thoughts based on memories and fantasy.
Watching the kitchen is seen that is simply as it is, things are different in the sense that are real and exactly where must be, something different from the mental image.
What is, is just what is, simply, ever new.
In these images, mind searches all the time for a confirmation for his ME, knowing that in the present moment there is no need to any me.
Back soon,
Ale
.................................
Aug 11
Hi!
I'm feeling lost.
Note:
If this me is the language only, a word, that means that all the conversations we made with other people, thinking that we are thinking the answers, actually go on automatic, the mind got images and labeling to use for that and actually in most of the talking we use memories and fix pattern of thoughts.
Can there be spontaneous talking or what is not spontaneous without doer?
If I talk with my mom it's easy to see that mostly we talk about nothing or always about the same thing.
In this case the labelling and the image of me repeat it's self also on automatic.
It's like if the mind full the situation with repetitive thoughts and believes that there is a maker of that thoughts during a conversation.
Actually everything happens on automatic, also thinking, talking, moving.
The identification (that perhaps doesn't exist) is only a repetitive pattern of thoughts taken for granted, not discussed.
Who is identified with what?
All the happening is anyway seen all the time, even the mind talking, using it's skills, says i'm doing, i'm going, i have cold, that is a car, is always seen, it's a joke, all the drama that make feel shit, isn't anyway seen all the time?
Who is the believer of thoughts?
Or only repetitive thoughts?
Seen never stop, the rest goes like on automatic.
Got lost here.
Ilona
Aug 12
Take a look, what is not spontaneous? What is not effortless?
Does spontaneous action require a doer?
How about all those micro movements of the body, blinking, breathing, scratching an itch, is there a manager over that?
The identification (that perhaps doesn't exist) is only a repetitive pattern of thoughts take for granted, not discussed.
Yes. All identification is assumed. Take a look, what is that identifies? Or is it all a story about identity?
Who is identified with what?
Is there a who? Is there something that word who points to?
Sending love.
Alessandro
Aug 13
Good morning Ilona!
I'm investigating the connection between thoughts, action, impulse/ action.
Only few considerations:
I'm watching this:
If i say: move a hand.
It can be that the hand moves, it can be only a thought passing or a repetitive thought running and running..
It can be the thought: move the hand and if doesn't happens a comment/thought: don't move the hand.
I notice after that the hand moved, thought did not tell witch hand to move, this is noticed in many other thought/happenings.
I still don't see if mind can directly command an action or not, i got confused here.
I will investigate this more and i will be back to you with the result!
So far i can see, it's true that after the decision (made without doer) mind tries to grasp the ownership but is also true that mind can command the body to do actions. In both of the cases thoughts are coming without doer- that is clear.
There is connection between thoughts and action, also if without doer, thoughts can cause feeling in the body?
No doer, no owner of the feeling but connectivity and reaction between body and mind.
.....................................
Aug 12
Take a look, what is not spontaneous? What is not effortless?
Does spontaneous action require a doer?
How about all those micro movements of the body, blinking, breathing, scratching an itch, is there a manager over that?
Everything is effortless and spontaneous, the thoughts come actually later on as a comment. Like that false image of a doer is also coming later on and only in thoughts.
Coming later on means that the image of this doer is also false, actually the decision was made before that thought and without control of any doer.
This confusing me when, for example, i decide to follow or not follow some thoughts, that gives the impression that there is a decision, but also that decision is actually made before that thought is coming by itself, not by a doer.
This doer comes later always in thoughts, actually it's all labeling, like the judge, actually is only in thinking that comes up and that thought only contains a word say I or me.
Like the body is moving on automatic, reacting to the situation, also thoughts follow the same path, it's a reaction based on beliefs and expectation, this happens also on automatic.
Yes. All identification is assumed. Take a look, what is that identifies? Is it all story about identity?
Is there a who? Is there something that word who points to?
Who doesn't refer to anything, who is like me or I, show up from image of self, thoughts.
Identification only means repetitive thoughts and also beliefs have the same roots, let's say the most used pattern of thoughts, is actually not believed by anybody but repeated from the mind.
Ilona
Yes, there is a decision, always the right one.
You know, when you got to choose something, there is either feeling of yes, excitement, or mmm, maybe... - that is a no. if its not yes, then it's no.
It's may take a bit of practice to recognize it, but it's not difficult at all. You know what you want, what is right in the situation.
So yes, decision happens, then mind creates a story about it. That's what mind does. It tries to understand what is going on.
Notice that in action.
If you are sitting now, stand up, (or otherwise) before reading further for the exercise.
..............
Standing? how did that happen? Was there a decision? Could it have happened differently?
Through the day, when you are standing up notice how that happens. It's a small decision, an action, is it mind that commands the body to stand up? Or mind describes what happened?
What is true in your experience?
Sending love
Alessandro
Aug 12
Hi, only few words:
I will tell you more soon.
Thanks for your help!
I never said, SORRY FOR ME ENGLISH!
When i read "stand up" for the first time, all my body got an impulse, we can call decision, to stand up, like there is no need to discuss.
After I was standing, the first thought that come say:
did I decide to stand up or there was a decision?
Actually only a question, in fact, commenting what was happening before.
Got the feeling that we miss all the time the first movement of the energy that was simply ready to express.
I notice how this movement happens and is clear that thoughts are translating the happening always after that the decision was made.
What at the moment is difficult to see is this:
If i say stand up and the body stands really up, i don't see if the mind can command the body or it's a coincidence or what.
Same if i say stand and after that, don't do it, and the second case happened.
Maybe if nothing happens i can understand that it's only thoughts passing by but if first the thought and than the exact happening...,
I need to see this better. Sounds like i'm building a problem here.
I will be back to you soon, i want to repeat this exercise more times.
Wish you a sweet night!
Ilona
Have you seen this video?
Neuroscience and free will
If not watch it. what do you feel about what you seen?
Take a look at this: all arise simultaneously, there is no cause and effect, as in thoughts cause action. thought and action arise from the same place, it's one flow, one movement of life. Thoughts do not make body move. try to move body with thoughts, when you walk, move your feet with thoughts, see what happens.
when you hear the sound, do you need a thought to activate hearing? when you open eyes, do you need thought to switch on seeing?
do you need thought to experience taste or smell?
Is thinking driving the body?
Take your time. No rush. Just observe what is right in front of you, experiment and write to me what you notice.
Don't worry about your english... i understand.
much love.
Alessandro
Aug 14
Hi Ilona ,
I saw the video…now, this is very interesting. In the case of that man, he has got 6 seconds to be conscious of what action is going to be and eventually to construct all the story about him doing the pressing of the button and believe that was his choise.
It's clear that impulses, decisions, are all coming by themselves and the later thoughts, also coming by themselves, are merely a kind of comment in between.
What is called conscious mind is only a story telling, a labeling machine that comment all the time the appearance and trying all the time to achieve the ownership of what of is going on. Without these thoughts all goes on anyway, with these thoughts all is going on anyway.
Regarding the video I only got some doubt if is true, like the scientist said, that the impulse/decision try to be in accord with what the conscious mind will like. I feel more that being one all movement of life, everything happens spontaneous according with what the situation is at that moment, without consideration of any kind.
I don`t see two minds but one movement.
Trying to move the feet with thoughts doesn't work, it becomes even ridiculous to do it, seems that the body knows already when and what to do.
It's very surprising just to put attention to the movement of the body, there is really a lot of movement and many decisions that are made before mind can even notice it.
All this makes a very different picture of this voice talking all the time in the head. You was right, watching the senses there is no I/me to be found.
More than this I don`t see at the moment, just checking what the body is doing, which comment are coming and noticing (sometimes yes, sometimes not really) when mind is telling a new or old story.
Big hug!
Ale
Ilona
Aug 15
Yes, you are seeing it. Cool!
Here are a few more questions for you to explore.
How does that play in normal everyday situations?
Do you notice anything different?
What is the same?
What is driving the story? How does it get created and what is listening to it?
Sending love.
Alessandro
Aug 15
Hi Ilona!
The play is not separated from that situation, situation and play are going on constantly, life IS all the situations, there is nothing more.
The I doesn't exist and so the doer, no owner, that's the play.
The play is seen with more distance and so the I concept, there is less pleasure in following some thoughts because the story is seen as a story from the beginning, sometimes it's seen even fighting between thoughts as if thoughts are trying to build stories etc.
Stories are built from thoughts, in thoughts, stories are thoughts, doesn't matter if telling about a character in an imaginary future or repeating old stories.
Reality happens in the present moment and includes everything.
The story comes up like everything else only in the present moment.
I can say nothing is changed in the appearance, but all that there is, without a point of view.
That's it at the moment.
Ilona
Aug 16
The play is not separated from that situation, situation and play are only going on constantly, life IS all the situation, there is nothing more.
Well said!
So is it clear that there is no entity I that is separate from what is happening?
Are you ready for the Final questions? If no, what else needs to be examined?
Much love.
Alessandro
Aug 16
Thanks!
Hi!
Let's examine the last question!
With love
Ilona
Aug 16
Sweet! Here they are :)
Please answer in full, when ready.
Much love.
Alessandro
Aug 17
Hi,
I spent some time with these questions, here we go, spontaneous answer:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Not, there is no me, no I to be found, no separate self at all.
All that there is is this, an ever changing present moment including everything.
In this present moment there can't be separation at all, even the concept of a me doing, only thoughts saying then repeating the word I and me, are not separate from this moment.
That is very funny to see, a thought that is coming from nowhere, always rooted in past memories or projecting to an hypothetical future, is also not separated from what is happening here and now.
As the scenario changes all the time, thoughts are not different, they are also changing all the time, they arrive and depart.
The concept of a separate self enters in the scene together with language, before that there is no concept of me.
It's a gradual teaching coming from the societies and also the way that the mind works, she must divide what simply is in order to analyze and describe the happening.
Funny enough now it is seen that this analytic mind, popping thoughts all the time, is always actually late from reality but also expressing in the present moment.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of a separated self doesn't really exist, reality knows no separation and so no separated self is in reality.
Before language there were no separated self thoughts, only life expressing, only feelings passing by, sensation, the concepts of I was not present.
After all the teachings, started in the family, school and society, a repetitive thoughts started to come and repeat the word learned- i, me.
So what was before just done, felt, seen, started to be labeled with i'm doing, i'm feeling, i see, etc.
We came at a point that this labeling was accepted as reality and was forgotten that actually it is only a convention to interact in the expression of life.
It's like if the movement of life that is flowing free, became fast and constantly labelled to a point that we started to miss and mix reality with words.
Life, expression, movement never stopped to flow free, actually included at that point also the concepts of separation as everything else and that become the new play.
It has became so rooted that thoughts as got bigger, believed and so important.
But realizing that all is coming in the present moment and by itself including thoughts and concepts, became clear that this is all there is and there is no real I, me needed or added or separated from this present moment.
All that was actually the play of separation.
In reality only the present moment exist, it is all that there is and this includes everything, the content is the present moment and nothing else.
Separation is again a concept and as a concept only a pattern of repetitive thoughts coming and passing without owner and also in this very present moment.
Reality is not affected anyway from any concept or thoughts, it includes them as what is passing at that moment.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I would like to answer only that it feels that there is no feeler but only feelings.
Feelings are, together with what there is, the present moment, like the words are simply up the page without asking for motivation or explanation.
There is a spontaneous tendency of acceptance, this doesn't depend on somebody, letting be what there is happens.
It is seen that all is one movement and not more, an expression of energy and synchronicity, there is no goal or dream to change something, to add something, to fight in the end.
Goals, dreams,desires are seen for what they are, pure imagination in the end and so is every step back or forward this very present moment, as this is all that there is.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
When reality presented itself uncovered.
there was an understanding that mind is one of the many things that are happening in this moment.
As always been actually like this and it was seen for the first time.
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
It is simply clear that decide, intend, choose and control are concepts and life simply expresses itself flowing freely from concepts, not affected.
There are many things that are happening in this moment and you is one of this, this is what is seen, this is the uncovered reality.
The realization that as always been like this shows the reality for what it is, an ever changing present moment, one force of energy expressing, life.
In love.
Ilona
Aug 19
Thank you Alessandro, beautiful!
I can see that you see. But I would like to hear a couple of examples from ordinary situations, every day life- what is the same and what is different?
How are you feeling these days? What are you noticing?
What is the biggest change?
Much love !
Alessandro
Hi,
Thank you Ilona, your help in this is just wonderful.
There are really not much differences in the outside happening I would say, what is different is that everything is now seen as one happening in the moment.
Before it was actually just a following of dreams of a better future or travelling in past memories, now the focus is spontaneous in the present moment as is seen that this is all what there is and that this is complete in itself.
It is seen that mind activity is just one more happening in the moment. I'm living with a big family in a very small house (got 4 children) and the dynamic of the family are still going on as usual but everything is seen as not personal in truth.
This impersonal seeing gives a feeling of relaxation in the situation and acceptance of what is, a wave of energy passing in the present moment.
Everyday I'm facing a lot of inputs via the fact that we are living with a lot of children, money are never enough, the work I don't really like..etc etc etc. but now I don't get traped anymore in the play and I see this as a life expression in this ever present moment like watching a film.
What i notice is for example that the mind is a little more relaxed at the moment. mind is now seen for what it is and not anymore as the director of the game.
After this i can't report any special happenings, just writing this comes up that everything is special or nothing is special, all is simply adapt to the particular circumstance.
With love and a lot of respect!!
Ale
Ilona
Aug 20
Nice! i recognize what you are saying. the shift is small, but it affects everything. :) it's only a beginning, of course, there is so much to explore. this is just the first step on the way to freedom.
would it be ok to post our conversation on my blog? i can use any name you like, people who read find those conversations helpful.
let me know please.
much love!
Alessandro
Aug 20
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you Ilona, you are between my best friend and you can use of course our conversation for your blog, i only will suggest you to correct some of my sentence in correct EN....
I also get the feeling that this is a beginning of something bigger and now i know where my question will get the correct answer.
We keep in contact and i follow you always!!
With love!
A
Ilona
Aug 20
Thank you very much, brother!
It is good idea to let this sink in. Just keep noticing and looking same way as you did. It is a lot to process. You can write to me anytime, if you not sure what is going on or stuff comes up. It will. This is a beginning of deconditioning the mind, and there are lots of exiting discoveries waiting.
I will post our conversation as soon as I can, will do the best with grammar.
Much love
Alessandro
Aug 20
Thanks sweet Ilona, i just bring our discoveries into the hart, keep that warm..
Cause there is no other than the present moment i will keep on staying in here, it's a miracle to see all what is going on..
With love
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