Brigita: The 'Doer' Was Erased

I really enjoyed this conversation with Brigita. She is from Lithuania too and we started talking on Facebook in Lithuanian, but later changed to English. Here is how it went. 

Brigita

Labas Ilona,

Back to English, if it's easier....

Thank You for taking your time to guide me.

Does Brigita have a body? Brigita lived as a body for all her life....What I see now, the body is an instrument or a vessel for Life to express itself, but it doesn't belong to me, it never did.  I see that there is a tendency to identify with processes or feelings in the body-like "I feel the discomfort, I sense some tension, I feel hunger..." And maybe this is what draws me to the identification with the body.

It's interesting, that for the past 2 years I thought that I am not the body. But I see now, that it was an empty thought, not based on the experience. i was living as the body Brigita with a thought that I am not the body.... How do I know now if it’s not another empty though that the body doesn't belong to me? Oh, i think I know.... there is no me now to have anything... maybe that's what has changed... it feels true

Ilona

Jun 12

Sweet!

Yes, it's easier for me in English.. Don't need to look for words :) sorry I did not answer yesterday.

Was there ever a me to own body? Was there ever a separate entity I/ Brigita inside the bag of skin? Or just in imagination?

Is there Brigita in reality, can she be touched, seen, heard, smelled or tasted? Does label Brigita owns label body? Write what you notice. Is there a driver in the body that makes it move? How about micro movements now? Is it I that is breathing or breathing is happening? Which description is truer?

There is an exercise in this post, do it and see if description of what is and experience has much in common. How are they connected?

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

Much love.  Hope you are feeling good and no more flu.

Brigita

Jun 13

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am well & happy -no more flu.

I did a suggested exercise first:

With I /Me

What I am experiencing:  I am sitting on the chair, I am observing what's around me, I am listening to music playing, I am hearing the noise from the street. I am waiting for another thought, I am observing the emptiness in my mind- I scared all thoughts out  :)

Without I /Me

Waiting for another thought, feeling the warmth from the heater, watching cars passing on  the street, feeling relaxed...

It feels so much more natural to remove the I from every experience. It feels ridiculous for the I to do the sitting, to do a listening, to do the observing or to do the waiting... A good exercise

Was there a me to own body? no... I can see that conditioning is so so deep.... All my life I "owned" a body, I had to protect it, to heal it, to fix it... That's what suffering is. I can still feel , that there is a subtle Me, who puts efforts to do a focusing for the Direct pointing, or a subtle Me to choose a healthy lifestyle....The other day I saw a photo of my friend who ran 21km marathon. And then the thought came- who is making this body fit? Who chooses to train every day instead of watching TV or who chooses to eat wholesome food instead of junk? And it felt that it should be some kind of "me" or "her" or entity in charge of that...I think, that is where I am tripping off... It's hard to believe, that focusing is happening without any effort. It feels that focusing and contemplation associate with effort. Who is doing the effort or trying to focus? Life is focusing and efforting on its own?

The other questions: is it I that is breathing, moving...No , this is clear to me that breathing, thinking, crying, healing is just  happening.

Is there I  /Brigita inside the bag of skin? No... I see such a deep conditioning, that makes or tries to make me believe there is a Me in charge. It looks that gravity of this conditioning is very heavy and is pressing/ pulling the whole system of "Brigita" to feel Me again. It's like deep grooves in the brain that subconsciously forces you to think about Me again. It's a huge change for the system to operate without the driver, without the doer....Is there Brigita in reality? hmmmm.............just crying.......( I thought I already did the crying for this year... it's just happening again)

much love

Ilona

Jun 14

Great stuff. Yes, without the I in description it feels freer and flowy.

<Was there a me to own body? no... I can see that conditioning is so so deep.... All my life I "owned" a body, I had to protect it, to heal it, to fix it...

Mmm, yes, that is a common belief. But if you cut a fingers it heals by itself, isn't it. And body knows what is dangerous and avoids it. 

<That's what suffering is. I can still feel , that there is a subtle Me, who puts efforts to do a focusing for the Direct pointing, or a subtle Me to choose a healthy lifestyle....

There is no subtle me.  That is just a little bit more to see through. Take a look at focusing, are you doing it? Try this, sit for 15 min still with closed eyes and watch how impulses come up to stand up and do something, intentions and thoughts pop in. Don't act, just watch how it all happens.  And see how focus moves by itself. Examine that closely. Do you know what will be the first thing is done once you stand up?

Then look, what is still here that requires effort? What is not effortless?

<The other day I saw a photo of my friend who ran 21km marathon. And then the thought came- who is making this body fit? Who chooses to train every day instead of watching TV or who chooses to eat wholesome food instead of junk? And it felt that it should be some kind of "me" or "her" or entity in charge of that...I think, that is where I am tripping off... It's hard to believe, that focusing is happening without any effort. It feels that focusing and contemplation associate with effort. Who is doing the effort or trying to focus? Life is focusing and efforting on its own?

There is no who.   Asking who question assumes an entity, nut it's only a construct of language that does not reflect reality.  It's meaningless like asking who is making the rain or who is making waves in the ocean?

<The other questions: is it I that is breathing, moving...No , this is clear to me that breathing, thinking, crying, healing is just  happening.

Nice.

<Is there I  /Brigita inside the bag of skin? No... I see such a deep conditioning, that makes or tries to make me believe there is a Me in charge. It looks that gravity of this conditioning is very heavy and is pressing/ pulling the whole system of "Brigita" to feel Me again.

Can you answer this- what would be lost, if that was true- there is no Brigita at all. 

<It's like deep grooves in the brain that subconsciously forces you to think about Me again.

It's called a habit. :) and habits change.  Once they no longer serve. 

<It's a huge change for the system to operate without the driver, without the doer....Is there Brigita in reality? hmmmm.............just crying.......( I thought I already did the crying for this year... it's just happening again)

There is driving, just not what you thought. And Brigita is only a label, it was never a driver not doer.  Same like batman. Is batman the driver of his story?

What is driving life?

Sending lots of love to you. 

Brigita

Jun 15

Started with a question: look, what is still here that requires effort? What is not effortless?

This question totally disarmed me....I can see that life flows effortlessly and the only thing that wants to put efforts is my Ego/ Me. That's how it secures it's existence, it earns it with the effort. The I requires effort to survive and to hide the truth that no effort is required AT ALL.  The I as such is useless. Wow... And if Life doesn't need "My" effort, "My" help, there is no need for a me/I. It's so hidden, and so obvious..

Another question: what would be lost, if that was true- there is no Brigita at all?

It would be a huge, huge, huge relief... It would be magic & wonderful. Pure happiness. Only the sense of pure beingness.. Is that it? With Brigita- unhappiness, without Brigita- total perfection?

Another question: is Batman the driver of his story? What is driving life?

The batman thinks that he is a driver of his story, so it is only a thought. And Life is just flowing effortlessly, like a river. No one is driving life or raining the rain or moving the ocean. It happens effortlessly indeed..

Is it the same with my life? no doer, driver is needed.. no effort is needed,  and no "Brigita" is needed to help, improve, secure, focus, put in order...?

I stay with this, it feels big to grasp it in one go... It's like a threshold, a new beginning without a "ME" as a doer

with love....

Ilona

Jun 15

<Started with a question: look, what is still here that requires effort? What is not effortless?

This question totally disarmed me....I can see that life flows effortlessly and the only thing that wants to put efforts is my Ego/ Me. That's how it secures it's existence, it earns it with the effort. The I requires effort to survive and to hide the truth that no effort is required AT ALL.  The I as such is useless. Wow... And if Life doesn't need "My" effort, "My" help, there is no need for a me/I. It's so hidden, and so obvious ..

Nice!

But take it to the next step. There is no ego.  There is nothing that is trying to secure its existence, I is just a thought. Can a thought fight for survival?

<Another question: what would be lost, if that was true- there is no Brigita at all?

It would be a huge, huge, huge relief...It would be magic & wonderful. Pure happiness. Only the sense of pure beingness.. Is that it? With Brigita- unhappiness, without Brigita- total perfection?

Hmm, there is nothing magical and this is not the happy ever after. Brigita is a character in the story and she is not going away, the story continues. Only it's seen that Brigita is fictional. Just like batman.

<another question: is Batman the driver of his story? What is driving life?

The batman thinks,

No, batman does not think.

<that he is a driver of his story,

And batman is not a driver :)

<so it is only a thought.

It's only a thought that character batman thinks. 

<And Life is just flowing effortlessly, like a river. No one is driving life or raining the rain or moving the ocean. It happens effortlessly indeed..

Yes.

<Is it the same with my life? no doer, driver is needed.. no effort is needed,  and no "Brigita" is needed to help, improve, secure, focus, put in order...?

Look now, is life happening to Brigita or as Brigita? To you or as you? 

<I stay with this, it feels big to grasp it in one go... It's like a threshold, a new beginning without a "ME" as a doer.

It never was a doer... Only a belief in one.

Much love. 

Brigita

Jun 17

Thanks Ilona for guiding me, I feel really blessed for having you here ....

Lots of mixed feelings after our last conversation.  There is a feeling of frustration that it takes ages for me to get it.. and that I take your time. also I felt  some kind of defense, when you said there is no ego...easier said than done...meaning I get the theory, that there is no ego, no self....I can't pin point the  "I" either, but the sense of separation or duality is still here.. also a feeling of emotional numbness...like it's blank and there is nowhere to look.

The other question you asked if life is happening to Brigita or as Brigita. And yes, life is happening as me, life is playing the character "Brigita". So I am life itself, but still somehow identifying with a character, with the labeling process.

What stood out for me from your last reply is this: Brigita is a character in the story and she is not going away, the story continues. Only it's seen that the character is fictional. It opened something in me. I will stay with this for a while..

love

Ilona

Jun 17

Thank you for answer.

Let’s talk a bit more about ego. What is ego? Some guy called Freud said we have ego, so is that true?

If you replace word ego with word character, is there still something to fight and get rid of? Even cats and dogs and tiny babies have character- patterns of behavior, flavor of personality, uniqueness. Word ego implies that there is some kind of entity that is driving life the way it wants, can stop the flow and is the owner the body, secretly living inside it.

There is no such entity. It's a story about ego, but ego itself is not real. Brigita is not real and Brigita's ego is not real.. Can ego stop the flow or is part of what is appearing in the flow?

If you don't label patterns of behavior as negative or positive, there are still patterns as expression of uniqueness. 

What is uniqueness? Is uniqueness special? Do you need to do anything in order to be unique?

Resistance shows up it is labelled self, ego, is it really an ego in action? Take a closer look here. Does tension, frustration, contraction still happen if it's not labelled ego?

Sending love. 

Brigita

Jun 18

Thank You... you are amazing! It looks like you are cutting through illusion with a very sharp knife, like a surgeon. It's very encouraging to see that you SEE and I am lucky enough to have my questions answered quickly.

Yesterday I have downloaded the app with LU quotes on my phone. The best app ever!  (The Perfect Piano app comes second :)

You have explained beautifully about the ego and labeling. Despite the label (good, bad, tired, tense, awful, wonderful) it is still the flow of life...unaffected. It's like labeling the wave/ bubble in the ocean. The wave is not separate from the ocean and with or without the label it will still appear and disappear. It's natural movement, not affected by the labeling process. And the ego can't stop the flow, as it is part of it.

The other question: what is uniqueness? Is it special? Do you need anything in order to be unique?

Again, life is effortless, no need to do uniqueness. As a wave in the ocean, it is just happens to be unique-tall, grand, small, gentle.. The character is supported, nourished by life itself, not I/Me acting. The label I is empty it doesn't have a real content, like the fantasy about Caribbean beach & pleasure is a fiction, if you are sitting at home. The I/Me is loaded with thoughts and more thoughts and feelings and sensations that are localized/ labeled as MINE

A bit more clarity today, thanks for that

with love

Ilona

Jun 18

Hi Brigita,

I'm very happy to hear that there is more clarity! Yes, with each question answered there is more clarity. Answering your own questions by yourself without reference to masters or teachers is what breaks the brick wall of illusion.  Glad to hear that LU app is of help :) lots of people were working on it.

The label I is empty, yes! Can you say, that shift has happened and that is clear?

Or is there still something that wants to be looked at?

Also have a closer look at how labels, thoughts affect the feeling. Labelling something bad, wrong, negative, unwanted does not change what is happening, but changes how we feel about what is happening and that too affects the response to what is. Can you investigate this process and write to me what you notice.

Much love. 

Brigita

Jun 19

Rytas :)   it's late afternoon here...

I looked at what you said:  also had a closer look at how labels, thoughts affect the feeling.

Without the labeling, there is only raw experience. A label is kind of a reaction of the mind to the present moment. Labeling something as good or bad creates a certain resistance or allowance.. Mind works as a filter-what it labels as good- it kind of allows to flow, and what it labels as bad/wrong it blocks, disallows, resists. And then the feeling of contraction or expansion follows. So life itself is neutral, but the experience is dressed up, enveloped by the comment/label of the mind and then the feeling arises...That is how we resist a certain behavior, when we say it is unacceptable,  for example drinking, killing , overeating and etc. So even if the mind says it is unacceptable-it doesn't change the behavior or the character, it is still there, even if the label of the mind tries to resist or deny it. So something is excluded from the experience-duality starts.

Just now I read a post on Mooji  Community  page: Keep quiet. Don't touch the thoughts. Let them be (Papaji).  It resonates somehow

It feels to me that lots of stuff, concepts are falling away during the past month.  More acceptance and less resistance...

At this moment no question is arising. Life will show what is still hiding behind the curtain

a big hug :)

Ilona

Jun 19

Aah, beautiful. Yes, it's much smoother ride without resistance. :) It goes as it goes anyway. Thoughts don't need to be believed.

Can you say, that YES, it is clear that I is not a separate entity? Are you ready for the final questions? If not, them what else would you like to look at?

Much love to you! :)))

Brigita

Jun 20

Thanks Ilona for your reply.

It’s always refreshing to hear from you :)

Yes, it is clear to me that there is no separate self, only life flowing without the owner to control or own it..

Let's have a look at final questions

If something will seem unclear or questionable, I will be honest and report it to you or look at it again :)

It feels more spacious, more open and all inclusive somehow...

lots of love

Ilona

Jun 20

Sweet! Here they are :)

……

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.

Brigita

Jun 22

This is how it feels today regarding your questions. Sorry, if the answers came interwoven and didn't come in 6 separate paragraphs, as you have suggested.

There is no separate "me" in any form or shape anywhere. I saw an image in my mind this morning, that the body is still here, but a content or separate identity was erased from the system, like the white chalk story wiped from the blackboard. It was always empty, but  thick layers of stories, thoughts, fantasies built around the separate character "me" makes the feeling of a 'big content'. There is no separate bit at all in life-just overflowing unity until the mind identifies with the raw experience, by adding "I” bit to it. Let's say after the exercise about noticing the actual experience with an "I" and without an "I",  It became very obvious, that there is no "I" to do a sitting , listening, watching. Just the unconscious label or thought, that reinforces further making of the story, that is happening with the character. The unquestioned  "I" bit creates some kind of illusory center around which the story is built. And the empty becomes very overflowing  with  "me" and we can't go past it. It’s like imaginary layer or wall. And when you start looking, it feels very very solid and real. But with the guidance, you see, that it's made of transparent fluff that was created around one label "I AM DOING IT". And because this conditioning was given us from an early age, it's very very  deep ,automatic reaction and gets applied to any experience.

From my own experience, it always felt that "I" was a doer, a driver, a healer, a lover, a worker and this have disappeared. There is no "I" to do anything, beside the character Brigita being moved by life itself.... It is a very humble experience to see, that there is no need to do anything... That's why a lot of crying was happening lately. Just seeing that no effort is required. Everything that required effort, strain, control fell away. What is left is the feeling of humble gratefulness, as if the character was working in an intense work camp, where the fear, tension, strive, expectation and hope was the fuel and it was suddenly released (I understand that the word release still implies someone being released, but I just mean the feeling of relief) .The responsibility to do, to control, to manage has disappeared. The 'doer' was erased.

The other day I felt somehow emotionally numb or lazy as a cloud of indifference landed to block the experience. This time I just let it be without fighting, analyzing, labeling and the next day I woke up with freshness, openness and clarity. I noticed that it happened on its own-without "my" interference.

The last bit, that pushed me over, so to speak was our last conversation about the ego play. For a long time I couldn't go past this thing of 'acceptance' of seemingly unacceptable things. And you have shown that despite character's non-acceptance, all these unacceptable things continue to exist. While not accepting the war, it's still there unaffected by my rejection or label. Without my acceptance -my daughter is still on the radical raw food diet :) or my body turns forty or gets sick, or someone is still rude or impolite .....So it seemed like a vicious circle to accept something, which is labeled as bad or unacceptable. It felt like a thick wall of righteousness, that I couldn't go past.  And a feeling of separation or exclusion.

The realization came, that the label /thought doesn't have the power to change the actual life, it made me to see the futility of the thought.  And as you say, the thought cannot fight-it's exactly that was seen.. The 'I' thought cannot fight or control either. Just the unquestioned story that it can...So. It’s a big opening.

Recently I wrote the quote from LU app in my diary ‘...in that process, we find that the person looking for security doesn't exist. Then the need for finding security doesn't exist. Then the need for finding security and the need for answers falls away, too'     YES!

...It felt like writing a little 'liberation' assignment  :)

Please, point out to anything I still need to look or clarify...the readiness is here to burn all lies that hide the truth...

And a deep gratefulness for this whole process happening here now

much much love :)

Ilona

Jun 22

Thank you for answers Brigita. I can see that you see and I'm very happy for you!

Of course, questioning and looking does not stop here and all the lies that are still in the shadows will come up to burn. All that is no longer serving will fall away. It's a process of integration and settling in. Some expect that with one seeing years and years of conditioning evaporates, but it's not the case. Good thing, from now on, you know where to look. :)

There is a lot more to explore and more awakenings, this is just the beginning.

Welcome home.

I usually publish conversations on my blog and other guides take a look and ask questions, if they have any.  Then I invite you to LU community. Would it be ok with you to share this? I can change the name or any details, no problem. There are a few Lithuanian people in the groups and one is in Australia! :)

Much love to you!

Brigita

Jun 23

ACIU Ilona :)

Thank You again for your guidance... It means a world to me :)  really.

You are welcome to use this material as you wish, and if you would like to edit or change anything,  it's  up to you.

I would love to get involved with LU and if you have any suggestions, I am open to that. I like the idea , that the next Buddha will be a community.

I also have a little question for you. I have heard you talking on Wizard radio and you said something like: If it is not a YES, it is a NO.  Can you explain it a bit deeper, so I get it fully? My whole being said Yes to this statement, but I just wanted to clarify what you meant...

Happy Solstice!  (it’s winter here with +3 in the morning with a bit of frost around  :(

with lots of love

Ilona

Jun 24

Hi Brigita,

Thank you so much for openness to share this.  People read these conversations and you never know what hits it home! I will put it up as soon as I can, but it may take a few days.

Regarding if it’s not yes, then it's no, there is always knowing inside what the next step going to be. It's a matter of trusting intuition and trusting this knowing.  When there is a choice to be made, mind can be saying one thing and heart another. It's the heart that knows and it's the mind that makes up stories about what should be happening. 

So take a break, and see if there is a clear yes, that could show up as excitement, fun, opening, joy. If it’s not there, then it's a no.  All maybies are no.   The YES is clear. It's just like a built in navigation system. Trust that knowing :) may take a bit of practice to notice and learn to navigate, but it's there. 

Happy winter!

It feels like autumn here, wind, rain, cold.. A bit of sunshine, but not enough to call it summer.. Hehe.

Much love.