Interview with Rick Archer on Buddha at the Gas Pump

It's my pleasure to present this interview that has been recorded last weekend. Elena and me talking about what is no self, what we do at Liberation Unleashed and how seeing that there is no separation changes one's experience of life.

Not much to say about it, watch it for yourself.

http://batgap.com/ilona-ciunaite-elena-nezhinsky/

Action Figure Ron Sees IT Too

Ron:

Dear Ilona,

My name is Ron from the Netherlands and I’ve been seeking for liberation from the moment I heard about it a couple of years ago. Read a lot of books and visit satsangs. But I’ve not found the clarity yet I’ve been looking for. Until I read your book ‘Gateless Gatechrashers’. I also heard a radio interview with you and your no nonsense approach moved me. I spend the last 3 months thinking if I should write you or not, because it feels a bit strange to write to someone you don’t know. But there’s something saying inside me I can trust you. So here I’m writing this e-mail and I hope you can guide me if you can find the time. This is what I found so far while answering your questions and pointers:

There is no self, no me that lives my life. What comes up?

 Well, a lot of things come up. Sometimes there’s fear. There’s also excitement. And the last two weeks it’s more like a relief, but also a lot of frustration, irritation and anger because I don’t seem to see it. I know that there’s no me to see it (but that is second hand knowledge). The I seems to be quite strong and convincing.

If try to look behind those feelings, they vanish but come back more strongly and that’s the moment doubt sets in: can this be true? Followed by: call off this search and have a drink with friends.

Overall there is a feeling of doing something wrong, like not looking in the right direction. And some kind of I don’t deserve this feeling. On the other hand, there is some deep urge to know, something that overrides the rest. Sometimes it’s weak, sometimes strong.

What do you expect from liberation?

 I could give myself the ‘spiritual right answer’ but deep down I expect a lot of it.

The moment itself: a deep insight with all revealing light

Afterwards:

No more problems, they glide of like a fried egg in a Teflon pan

Deep peace

No more pain, worries and suffering

Always happy

Being profound and wise in every situation

Deep insight in life

Deep relaxation (my body always feels very tense and dense)

In short: I’m hoping to be special. I know it’s quite the opposite, but again that’s second hand knowledge (and now I’m thinking about it I even borrowed that second hand knowledge quote, everything I say about liberation seems something I picked up somewhere from others). 

What is real? What is here now?

 There is a body sitting on a couch in a room. There is typing. A laptop. There is furniture. There are sounds from outside of people passing by. There are bodily sensations like sitting, some tension in the stomach, which feels like I’m present. There is a lot of thinking about this e-mail. And it is all very, very real.

But when I look for the self all I find are thoughts and bodily sensations (mostly tension). There is no constant I or self so to speak. The one moment I is bodily sensation like a pain, itch, relaxation in the stomach area, etc. Another moment I is a thought like I’m happy, sad or I got to do the dishes. And another moment I is an action like cycling, typing, eating, smoking etc.

I can’t find a solid I, I is constantly shifting from the one thing to another. Strangely there seems to be some kind of center though.

Where do thoughts come from?

They just pop up. Sometimes a thought seems to come from a previous thought. Sometimes a thought seems to be evoked by circumstances or feelings.

Can you control thoughts?

No, I can’t control thoughts. Even I’m gonna think about… is a thought I did not choose for. So they just happen.

I also noticed that some thoughts seem to label things: a chair, a table, good, bad, etc. While others are more like assignments or very pushy ideas at least: do this or…, buy these clothes and you look good, you need a cigarette, etc.

In other words, some thoughts seem to be functional for the body (drink or eat something, it’s cold put the heater on) and other (most) thoughts are about desires, fears and hopes (a kind of destructive). And they all are about me, myself or I, very egoistic.

What influences thought?

Experience.  A sad feeling comes up followed by the thought I’m feeling sad. Then all kind of other thoughts come up like I don’t want to be sad > Why I’m sad?> Oh of course it’s because of what happened this morning (or what might happen this evening)>this gonna be a shitty day. And then it just rambles on in the hope to find a some kind of solution or relief until something else happens (seeing a nice house or something) that breaks the thought cycle and start a new cycle (wouldn’t it be nice if I could buy that house > but I can’t afford it > Maybe, I have to find a job that pays better> etc.) It just never stops.

Do you know what your next thought will be?

No, only vaguely when it is habitual thought cycle you’ve seen a 1000 times before. And even when it’s a ‘here we go again’ thought cycle, it’s not completely predictable and interrupted by all kinds of other thoughts which are completely off subject.

Can a thought be stopped in the middle?

No, thoughts seem to be extremely short like flashes with no beginning, middle or end. They also seem to have some force behind them that can’t be stopped; it’s like trying to stop your hair to grow. Maybe functioning is a better word (but why are most thoughts so depressing than?)

What do you know for sure?

Difficult one, the only thing I’m sure off is what is happening now, sitting, typing, breathing, etc. And a vague sense of being/presence. But deep down I’m not sure of anything at all. I guess there is a lot of doubt.

There is no separate self in real life.

That is not seen yet. Intellectual I get it. But I’ve the feeling I’m missing something. There is no click as you call it.

What I do notice is that everything happens. Seasons change by themselves, weather changes. Everything is alive just by itself. But I feel excluded, like I’m the one exception. Of course I feel alive, but I feel a bit cut off the rest of life. Like I’m inside, and the rest of life is outside. It is like what happens in my head, thought cycles, is more important than what’s really happening. I feel like a kid that wants to play outside but the I keeps me in like a evil stepmom inside the house to do the dishes. This sounds silly doesn’t it, a non-existing me that is forced by a non-existing I to stay inside.

Ilona this where I’m now, and I really hope you can help me on this matter. I would really appreciate it if you would.

Kind regards, 

Ilona:

Hi Ron,

Nice work. I appreciate you wrote to me. Your very honest desire for truth and burning shows readiness. Take that one step further.  There is no line between inside and outside. All you see is it. Close your eyes and listen, is there a line? Try to feel it, search for it. And with the eyes open see what eyes see. Is there inside or outside here? Can you look inside? where is that?

"Strangely there seems to be some kind of center though." seems, that's right.. But is there? there is clear sensation of being. That which is aliveness, amness.  The buzzing vibrating something. Is that sensation there with or without labels?

Me is a label, no more.  Feeling, sensation is real, content of thought isn't.  

Anyway, this is what is in the way of seeing clearly "What do you expect from liberation?

I could give myself the ‘spiritual right answer’ but deep down I expect a lot of it.

The moment itself: a deep insight with all revealing light

Afterwards:

No more problems, they glide of like a fried egg in a Teflon pan

Deep peace

No more pain, worries and suffering

Always happy

Being profound and wise in every situation

Deep insight in life

Deep relaxation (my body always feels very tense and dense)

In short: I’m hoping to be special. I know it’s quite the opposite, but again that’s second hand knowledge (and now I’m thinking about it I even borrowed that second hand knowledge quote, everything I say about liberation seems something I picked up somewhere from others).  "

There is no insight. Just a drop of belief. No boom. That is shift in perception, can be very subtle. No more problems? Hm, may be or may not, depends on amount of beliefs need to burn and fall away. So leave this expectation right here. Deep peace yeah, can be accessed anytime, but not always present. 

No more pain? You are not going to turn into senseless zombie, pain, yes, suffering, it will diminish but won't evaporate overnight. This is only first step, there is integration and all that. Not the end, beginning. 

Happy? Irrelevant. It is not about state. Wise and profound? Who knows. It does not give you knowledge. This does not change character. Special? Definitely not. 

It is not what you expect, whatever you expect. So leave all expectations aside. Besides, the unfoldment is unique, no need to compare. Basically, mind is resolving this question and let it do it's job. Don't try to bend what is, look at what is already obvious.  Doubt all you know and ask what is true. 

Write to me what comes up.  

You are very very close.  Now look, everything so far is happening by itself.  One movement. Including thought about it. 

Much love. 

Ron:

Hi Ilona,

       

Thanks for your quick reply and for helping me out. I was really surprised when I opened my mail this morning and read your reply. It gave me some confidence to look further. Today I’ve spent the day outside the house working on your pointers. This is what was found:

There is no line between inside and outside. All you see is it. Close your eyes and listen, is there a line? Try to feel it, search for it.

When I close my eyes and try to find a line between outside and inside, I really can’t find one. It’s the most clear with sounds, I can’t find a boundary between the sound and the hearing itself. It’s like there is space in which everything happens, sound, hearing and what’s hearing at the same time.

Also thoughts don’t seem to be actually IN the head, they kind of fly trough.

Feelings like contractions are a bit more difficult. They seem to be in the body, but not very solid, more like floating in the body.

Bodily sensations like the wind touching the skin, don’t seem to have clear line either. It is hard to tell where the wind ends and the skin starts. It’s like they melting together.

So with closed eyes I can’t really find a hard or concrete line.

And with the eyes open see what eyes see. Is there inside or outside here?

With open eyes it was easy to find a line between inside and outside… in the beginning. But then something hit me. When I look I can’t tell where the seen ends and the eyes start. There is that big space (and small if I was not out in the woods but in a tiny room) in front of me in which everything happens, including my body. I can see the whole body except the head (that would need a mirror). Where my head should be is space.

The position of the body in that space determines the point of view, the direction of looking. And because I can’t see what’s happening behind me, it seems there is a boundary, but there isn’t. There is only a boundary or line when the I thought appears.

So also with my eyes open, I can’t find a line.

Is Inside and outside the same thing? I’m confused here

Can you look inside? where is that?

This is also a difficult one. I always find it hard to look inside. I can only do it with my eyes closed. Then it gets dark and spacious. The only thing I find are thoughts passing by. Thoughts about me. Sometimes there appear visuals of descending in the body, but this a thought also, isn’t it? Then I mostly stumble upon a feeling in the stomach area and can’t go any further.

I actually find nothing there. And I doubt now if there even is a inside there. Much confusion on this pointer too.

I’m still working on your other pointers.

By the way, I felt a bit lighter than I normally do. And there was some sadness about saying goodbye to my concepts about liberation. Overall I can say that writing to you about it is very helpful. It seems to clear things up. Until now I was always pondering about truth in my head.

Basically, mind is resolving this question and let it do it's job. 

Ilona, do you mean that mind is ‘working to’ liberation by itself? Like this is what mind is looking for?

Much thanks for your time so far. I'm looking forward to hear from you.

Gratitude and love,

Ron

Ilona:

Great to hear that it is helping to write to me. :) i love being of service.

> Ilona, do you mean that mind is ‘working to’ liberation by itself? Like this is what mind is looking for?

Yes, i mean exactly that. Thoughts about liberation and looking are happening, all by itself. There is no one here that is managing that. If you decide to drop all this and distract from inquiry, sure thing it will come back. Just like a seed sprouts and starts growing into a tree, so do ideas, they grow and there is no stopping that. So mind is looking for truth and seeing is happening, already. It is a process, sometimes shift is so subtle that can only be seen after a few days.

i sense that you are right at the gate, you are looking at it and starting to see the obvious.

keep me posted.
much love.

Ron:

Hi Ilona,

Things seem to unfold rapidly now, and there is a lot of clarity as in there is no gate, no such thing as liberation. These are all concepts, beliefs and ideas that keep you in imprisonment, seemingly. Even truth is a concept. IT doesn't need concepts; it doesn't need anything at all. IT JUST IS, it's already free and it always was. And even this description is too much. It can't be described, because it contains description and IT IS before description, or breath or whatever. It's no-thing and yet it appears to be everything.  

It's like mind is coming out of very uncomfortable and tensed position and relaxes. It's fluid and light as a feather.

The urge to find something is gone. The whole idea of searching exactly never was really there. It was already so, and therefore nothing really changes.

Ilona I'll come back to you soon to tell you more, but writing about is hard now because so much things are seen through rapidly. Yet it is a quite a peaceful and every day experience. This action figure called Ron just went to work like always, there is nothing special, but it's leaves you speechless   

It's like you said, it's nothing you can imagine.

Much, much, much love and gratitude,

Ron

Ilona:

Enjoy the ride, Ron! :) It really is something else when mind starts seeing through limitations that were here only because of words. 

I hear you and I know you have seen IT. Write to me when you feel like, I'll give you some last questions. 

Sending lots of love! 

Ron:

Hi Ilona,

The ride is great, it's amazing in it's simplicity. So here is a big smile from the Netherlands. Things are seen through, but in a pace that the action figure Ron can handle, because it couldn't be any different. There is this feeling of joy and peace as deep and spacious as the whole universe and at the same time it has the size of a speck of dust.

It's overwhelming but in a very laid back way.

Things literary have lost their weight or meaning, but not in a cold or nihilistic way. There is love and caring but without any attachment. I've expected this magical mystery tour topped off by a dark night of the soul, a crossing of the valley of death like some gurus say. And it's not like that at all. IT is utterly simple. But the urge to find meaning makes it seem so complex. All these books about IT, satsangs, gurus, caves, mountains with difficult names I've put so much meaning in are seen for what they are: empty, no-things. But as long as you give them meaning, there is no seeing. Maybe this why some gurus only wearing only a loin cloth to emphasize that. But a western mind thinks, oh look, he's wearing only a loin cloth, he must be special. And then people spend time with the guru in the hope to find truth.  But the guru is only pointing to truth, and of course 'he' is truth, but so is the seeker. And the guru is trying to tell you that, but he has no special powers so he's got to use what every other human uses, symbols, language, words, concepts. So then you get these paradoxal sentences like: emptiness is full, the pathless path, what's looking is what you’re looking for (love that one). And you think: wow that sounds cool, that sounds important. But these words are empty. Of course they carry some truth, but so does blahblahblah or dsfnsjgjsg.

With seeking comes meaning and then you build up these huge spiritual beliefs and so the walls of 'your cage' only thicken. The more you belief the thicker the 'wall'.

And those spiritual beliefs have another problem than other beliefs; they seem to be more important. So you start looking for things that fit that belief. Sitting for 20 years on a mountain top in India seems much more spiritual and effective than simply looking and writing and sending e-mails to you. A laptop doesn't seem to have the same halo as these images of Shiva the Destroyer have.  

But if you lucky you move from the 'big' gurus from India to ordinary guys like Paul Hedderman (if you don't know him, he's worth checking out on zenbitchslap.com) who talk about truth in a down to earth way. And your spiritual beliefs start to crumble. And if you are really lucky you find someone like you who takes time and says: have a look and tell me what you find.

Ilona you are amazing and I'm looking forward to the last questions.

Much much much love and gratitude,

Ron 

Ilona:

Thank you for kind words :) it was delightful to read your email. I love the sharing of fresh seeing, when the veil lifts and all that was hidden becomes obvious.  The meaning itself is the construct that helps to support the illusion- an image of me, searching for meaning is a very meaningful image. :)

And here are the final questions we ask when it's clear that the gate and the searcher have disappeared. 

Please answer in full when ready.  

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? 

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.  

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? 

  

Lots of love to you too. 

My heart is filled with appreciation. 

Ron:

Hi Ilona,

Things settle more and more. It's like body and mind are adjusting to this 'new thing'. You are very effective in people helping to see. I can't find the words to express that gratitude. Maybe the answers on your last questions can be read as a big thank you to you, to life. 

Ilona, i'll keep you posted.

Much much much love, 

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? 

No there isn't and there never was. Me, I, self are labels, words, symbols or whatever you want to call them. In reality you are not there. Have a look, you just got fooled. 

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

I is the first symbol where everything else is 'built' on. After I come the rest of the words, symbols, concepts, beliefs etc. And you keep building and building and working on this I. Why? Because you think they are about you. You seems so important, interesting or cool. Literary everything you can think of is built on this little word 'I', a false assumption. Extremely tiny but also very persistent. Until you just take a look, than there is seeing that there never was an I in the first place. In a weird way deep down mind knows this and it's chasing down answers, but there are no answers, so it's get confused because it want's meaning or reason so badly while there isn't any of that. And mind just can't get or grasp it. Mind's nature is to divide so it can't understand wholeness. In that process of mind seeking for reason huge beliefs get made rather they material, spiritual, political, natural or anything you can possibly think of, and mind starts to giving them meaning by cherishing, hating, trading, loving, defending those beliefs. Whatever the belief is, they all start by the belief in I. But don't try to see through all those beliefs because they're endless. If you get rid of one idea, a 100 others come instead. The only belief that needs seeing through is that one word (beliefs are words) I. And if I is seen through all the other ones are gone too. And gone is not the right word, because they were never there anyway. 

3) How does it feel to see this?

Simple, normal, natural, every day and clear. Things loose their meaning, their weight, their sting. Because that sting is I, it is you. Things don't need a you. That is the reason a you was never here. IT doesn't need anything at all. IT JUST IS, like it was always. 

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.  

Like the above. But don't put meaning in those words. The words are not it. They pointing, but in the end they are just a hideous attempt to describe something that can't be described. 

If you want to see IT, just sit down, look and write. Don't worry about looking honestly. Looking honesty and all that other stuff you think you need for simple looking are already there. Be like a Nike ad, just do it. Stop fancy about IT.  Just look and write and sooner or later that word 'I' will be written off. Just by itself. And then there is only living, only flowing, simply because it was already so. 

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? 

Looking for the line between outside and inside. There was seeing that this line is not there, that I was that line, that boundary. After I was seen trough, everything was seen trough. Everything was about me, but me was not there. Me left everything and everything was left as it was always.

Ilona:

Thank you! Your words bring smile to my face an delight to my heart. 

i can see that you through the non-existing line with both legs. wooo hooo!

can i put this on my blog, so it may help somebody else and i could get you confirmed and invited to our facebook aftercare groups. (If you prefer, i can change the name.) some time sooner or later it is good to share experiences with others that seen the same, especially in times of falling- when beliefs are falling off so fast that there may be a bit help needed to stabilize.  there is a growing community on facebook, i'd love if you joined. If you do not have an account, create one. 

Ron:

Hi Ilona,

Of course you can put it on your blog. It is the least thing I can do to express gratitude. Thanx for all the info to, I'm not on Facebook, but I guess I will.

Ilona, many thanx for all you did, you are truly a life 'changer'. 

Much love, gratitude and a big hug,

Images: Realistic V Unrealistic

Working as a tattoo artist my job it to create images on skin. You can see some of my and my husband's work on our website.

Often clients email me their ideas and pictures they like an I have to find a way to transfer it into tattoo. It is amazing to see my clients happy as they get a new tattoo, or get the old one covered. The images that I create for them are unique and permanent, and that is what makes it special. Customizing human bodies is great fun. 

If you have a tattoo you know how important it is to get it right from the start. It is too easy to get a tattoo that is not well done, distorted and looks like a kid's drawing rather than a piece of art. It is much more difficult to get it fixed later then to do a research and find somebody who can deliver from the first time.

What amazes me greatly is how some people have ideas completely mixed up, so far away from what can be done and how the images in the mind are completely unrealistic. My job is to help to translate an idea into a workable image. Sometimes that means breaking illusions and getting the client to think from scratch. What is imagined does not necessarily reflect what is possible to do or what is right to do. And it is not just young people, that get all mixed up in a head.

For example, a client sends a picture of some back piece tattoo that they like, a large piece on the ribs or a whole sleeve and ask me to do a tattoo just like that on their wrist. This puzzles me, how come there is such obvious difference in size, and they still see it as the same? A girl once brought me a photo of apple blossoms and a bird and asked me to do a tattoo of an apple tree on her wrist with roots coming down the hand, with that bird sitting in the tree... To me that is very strange, as she sees one and imagines another, as if that was the same image. 

Often I get asked to tattoo something on the wrist that would go up side down, as the person wants to see it right way up, without realizing that for everyone else this tattoo would look wrong way up. Let's say it's a cross and I did it, she is happy, but confused, why everyone around are looking at her in a strange way as if she is a satanist. :) 

But the funniest thing for me is when somebody has a very bad and old tattoo and they ask me to do the background for it. I suggest that old tattoo needs to be covered, there is no way that it can be made looking good, but they insist that they like it. That just shows that they do not see it as it is, but as they believe that it is- beautiful. Often it's because friends would nod heads and say how great it looks. Sometimes it is hard to admit that mistake was made and now they are stuck with something far from beautiful, so it is easier to pretend that it's all good, then find a way to sort it. They rather hold on to unrealistic image then open the eyes to what is. 

Here is my favorite website of bad tattoos, I can laugh for hours looking at permanent markings on real bodies that went completely wrong http://tattoofailure.com. I know it is not so funny for them people who's skin has been ruined. But a choice has been made and ink is in the skin. We don't learn from other people's mistakes as quickly as from our own. So having a bad tattoo is often a good lesson. It is better no tattoo then a crap tattoo, that is for sure. 

So images that we have in our mind are often far away from what is realistic and doable. And that is not just about tattoos. What we want and what can be done are sometimes far far away from each other. That is when the suffering comes in. There is nothing wrong with imagination, but when the distance from imagined to realistic is too great, there is tension, depression, broken hopes and it feels not so nice. :(

There is a difference between realistic and unrealistic images. The more you invest in unrealistic image, the more it hurts when it is met by reality. So if you ask me to do a back piece tattoo on a wrist and I say no to that, my answer does not meet your expectation and the image crashes down bringing your mood down as well and you get disappointed. Then you have to spend time getting over it.

What would your life be if you stopped imagining how the future should turn out and simply live in the now, without trying to manage life to fit your imagined outcome? What if you dropped the unrealistic, distorted fantasies and stopped trying to change what is? How do you know that what you want is what you need? I don't know. I can only see one step that I have to do now and one step ahead.  I can no longer imagine future and take it seriously. I don't create images in my mind a see them crash over and over again when they meet with reality, as I used to. That gives a lot of freedom to simply be and enjoy what is. The imagined can be enjoyed too, but I know it's a daydream...

Images

       
One of tricky parts while looking for the mysterious "I" is to recognise what is real and what is imaginary. By real I mean that, which is here, you believe in it or not. Like this table, or computer or your fingers on keyboard pressing the keys. The sensation of breath coming in an out, the tingling feeling in the back, that, which is experienced. 

An image is mind created, it is not real, it can twist and change in a breath and can only be found in imagination. Close your eyes and recreate the room where you are sitting now together with your body in a chair and all that is around it. The image may be vivid, may be blurry, it may have a homely feel to it or be full of judgement about how bad this space is, but it is all just in imagination. When you open your eyes, the space is filled with things and you can go and touch them, feel them and compare to imagined things. 

When you remember something from the past, you see an image in the mind, then thoughts flow and tell a story, what was happening, how it felt, what came out of it. The past is made up of images and so is the future. Imagine yourself in  three years. Immediately mind starts constructing an image of some wants and wishes, hopes that this or that will be different, wining a lottery perhaps, and also fears that it may all go wrong. The feeling that gets triggered by the image is felt and is a real sensation which is arising in the now, regardless if the image is made up. The thought feeling connection is always at work.

Imagine you have a visitor. Someone you really like a lot comes to this room now and sits next to you, gives you a hug. The feeling is pleasant and you want it to last, perhaps mind goes on daydreaming, creating more images that have this pleasant, heart warming effect. 

Body reacts to real and to imaginary. It does not know the difference. If mind is holding a scary image of danger the body will tense up. Other day I was trimming a bush and I saw lots of bugs, that triggered a reaction of jumping off, but all it was a slightly different colouring on the branch, the body reacted as it was real, as strongly as if it was. 

The image of me is not a me. It appears as something real, something that needs to be protected and looked after, something that needs to manage life of me. But as soon as you start looking if there is reality behind that image, it becomes clear, that this 'me' is completely made up. There is no evidence in reality, that me is more then an image. If I asked you to touch that which you call "me", could you? Would you be touching chest or head? How about hearing that me, can you hear it now? 

People go around their lives lost in the mind, the now, that which is, is covered by a thick blanket of mental fog. The imaginary world seems to be more important than what is here, right now. Just notice, how whatever body does, it does regardless what images you are engaged in. There is a whole wold of experiencing right here, unnoticed, unappreciated, only because the images of past or future are taking the whole focus leaving only a tiny bit on what is actually happening . Mindful being is replaced by being in the mind. 

Do you care what others think of you? Do you try to protect the image of you, so your friends would think about you this way and not the other? Does it hurt if someone else's image of you is not what you would like your image to be perceived as? Do you get depressed and suffer over imaginary stuff? There really is no need for that at all. 

The mind itself knows, that images are not reality, but somehow it tricks itself into believing it otherwise and is working so hard and intensely to keep them images safe. As if an image can get hurt of something. 

Try this: close your eyes and see your body dead. Shocking? No? Look at that image from different angles, see it from eyes of another, perhaps your mum. Feel whatever comes up and notice how this image affects the body. Besides the feelings, does it affect anything else? The table, the chair, the screen is still here, nothing goes anywhere, the body is sitting comfortably too. The image is not reality. It can not affect what is. But it has a very big impact on how you feel. And how do you feel if there is no story going on in the head- relaxed, at peace,  joyful... like holiday...

The goal here is not to get rid of images, but to recognise that images and reality are NOT THE SAME. Then images can no longer create tensions in the body and as a result you can live more relaxed life and enjoy it. Then less and less images about past or future show up in the now. You don't need to worry about stuff that may or may not happen. 

When images are seen for what they are- mind created postcards of past or future, not to be taken seriously, mind relaxes. There is nothing that can happen to an image off a me. It is indestructible, same way that Batman can not die, neither can you as both are purely in imagination. :) Can you see that? 

What is here now experienced by senses is also an image created by the mind, but here now the imaginary me is not present. It belongs to the realm of daydream, fairy tales and fantasy world. We can tell stories about me but stories and reality are not to be mixed up if you want to see life as it is. Not as you imagine it to be. 

Imagination is a powerful creative force, love it, respect it, but please, check for yourself, if you live your life lost in a head and are missing what is really going on.  There might be a whole new world waiting to be discovered. One that is right under your nose, so obvious and so overlooked. 

Images from www.fredrikodman.com

Justin: Gate Is Imagined, Just Like Imagined Spoon..

Justin 
Aug 1 (4 days ago)

Hi Ilona,
I came across your blog from the Liberation Unleashed website. Many thanks for your compassion to fellow seekers.

I've recently suffered from anxieties and fears due to work stress. My first relief from these symptoms was attending a cupcake decoration class last week - just purely focused on piping cupcakes, no expectations, no stories. I realised that the suffering was all in my 'head'.

This week, I started observing the shift after reading writings from Scott Kiloby, "Gateless Gatecrashers" and your website. Life just life-ing, although the "I" thought-form (eg. stories, baggage) can still be noticed. There are occasions of physical discomfort (ie. anxieties) and I'm unclear whether it is due simply to emotions arising from events, or the "self"  hijacking the flow of life.

I would like to request your assistance to enter the gate. Thank you.

Regards.

Ilona:
Hi Justin.

Thank you for email.
Physical discomfort is part of life.  It has nothing to do with self. There is no self. Animals too get sick and feel pain, it does not mean they have a self, same human animal. Body does its own business.

Anxieties and frustration is another thing- years of programming do not necessarily vanish just from seeing that there never was a self. So there might be lots of work needed to stabilise and release old patterns.  And self can not high jack the flow, it does not exist.

Are you clear on that? There is no self as in zero.  What feelings, thoughts arise here?

What do you expect to happen?
Write all hopes and expectations down.


Much love.



Justin:
Aug 2 (3 days ago)

Hi Ilona,
Thanks for your response.

It is currently difficult for me to separate the thought of “self” from feelings of anxiety, the latter seems to trigger thoughts of self. Intellectually, I understand my “self” is like Batman and Santa – it does not exist in reality. Yet, I can act as if the self exists – continuing in such suffering. I believe that something doesn’t have to be true to be useful. I am ready to break out of this belief.

There is no self as in zero. What feelings, thoughts arise here?

Occasionally, I observe that there is no one behind the typing, eating etc, I feel a great sense of relief, lightness, freedom. Things just happen.

Hmmm, in order for “me” to observe that there is no doer, this has to happen after the fact. “I observe” must come later – this labelling/thought is extra. Is this it?


My hopes and expectations are:
-       Anxieties, fears, struggles in life and suffering will be removed.
-       Others will like and approve of me.
-       Provide answers and clarity on my purpose in life and what I should be doing.
-       To be happy.
-       Living in the flow.
Thank you for your instructions.
Regards.
Justin


Ilona:
Hi Justin.


My hopes and expectations are:
-       Anxieties, fears, struggles in life and suffering will be removed.

Not necessarily. At least not right from the start.
There is freedom to experience all spectrum of emotions without judgement that it's wrong to feel what you feel.

-       Others will like and approve of me.
Seeing that there is no self does not change what others feel about you. Does not change character. It is a shift in perception. Just that. All is already whole, already unfolding as it should.

-       Provide answers and clarity on my purpose in life and what I should be doing.

What if there is no purpose, no meaning..?

-       To be happy.

That becomes irrelevant.


-       Living in the flow.


It is always just the flow. There is nothing that lives outside of life.

What else do you think should happen? Make sure you bring ALL expectations to the surface as they are what is in the way of seeing.

What you do not want liberation to be?


Justin:
Hi Ilona,
Here is my reply.

What else do you think should happen? Make sure you bring ALL expectations to the surface as they are what is in the way of seeing. 

I want to achieve whatever I set my mind to achieve.
I want to be happy and satisfied with what I have achieved.
I want to be perfect in what I do, and receive no criticisms from others.
I want to be loved and accepted by everyone.
I want to achieve peace of mind so there’s no more struggle or suffering in my life.
I want to uncover who I really am and live from that truth.
I want to be physically, emotionally and financially secure.

What you do not want liberation to be?
To continue struggling in life and not feeling satisfied.
To continue having that sense of insecurity, and not being accepted.
To continue to feel stuck, confused and depressed.
To continue living in my head.


Regards.
Justin

Ilona:
Thank you for honest answer.
Can you notice that there is a lot of wanting. It is that wanting that has to be put to rest and if you are ready to take a fresh look what it is, we can start looking.

When you say I, what does it refer to?



Justin: 
Thank you for your instructions.

When you say I, what does it refer to? 
I refers to a thought associated with name, abilities, various attributes, past stories, future expectations, desires, aversions and preferences. This thought appears to be constantly moulded by experiences and events of the past.

Ilona:
You are looking at grand illusion.
There is nothing behind word I. Just a bunch of thoughts and images.

Character batman has I when he talks in a movie and also has abilities, attributes and past. But is batman real or imagined? That is the question.

How do you recognise what is real and what is imagined?

(real- that which does not disappear if you stop believing in it.)

Spend some time with this and answer, what is more real, Justin or batman, and how do you know.


:)


Justin: 
Hi Ilona,
Thank you for your instructions. Tears flow, because I know this is a hard one.

But is batman real or imagined?
Batman is imagined. It is a made-up character that cannot be found in real life.

How do you recognise what is real and what is imagined? 
This is difficult for me. That which is imagined requires an extra step of belief to seem believable. This is similar to how we believe the characters and stories in movies to be believable.

what is more real, Justin or batman, and how do you know.
Justin is more real than batman. The extra step of belief is smaller for Justin than batman.

Your questions have raised some worries - that I cannot easily separate real from imagined, and am unaware of my beliefs (in terms of things being real or imagined)!

Regards.
Justin


Ilona:
to Justin
Oh yeah. The bigger the doubt the bigger the awakening- so zen proverb says.

Tell me, what do you know 100% as truth?

Sit with this for a bit and write what comes up.


Justin: 
Hi Ilona,
Thank you for responding. Things have been clearer this morning, and I've been referring to your 6-step process on your website to clarify what I know as 100% true.

Step 1: There is no self at all. No me that lives my life.
Fear arises - loss of control and survival without a self. This fear is a result of the doubting, which I describe below. But I also realise that there's never been a self in the first place. The self is imagined and associated with whatever is happening. Seeing, observing, typing etc. just happens with no doer actually.

Step 2: Strip away all expectations
We did that in my previous email.

Step 3: Get in touch with real
The doubt between real and imagined arises because of the mechanism of striving to be something (real or imagined) other than what is. This is a separate issue, but is interfering with this process.

The imagined spoon is not real. Batman is not real. I open my eyes and cannot find them in real life. I can drop the belief now.
Justin is not real (ie. but this is seen below).

Step 4: I is a thought. Thought does not think.
Observing breathing happening, but notice there is no breather. Then the thought "I breathe" arise. This "I" thought points to nothing - there is no one there. There is only breathing happening. Similarly, the thought "Justin breathes". "Justin" points to nothing - there's no one there. When the thought "Justin" comes up, there's nothing to point it to, although there is another separate process of associating that links "Justin" to memories, past experiences. By itself, "Justin" is imagined.

Step 5: The Gate
The current understanding of this is still superficial, but the realisation is that there is no noun, only verb. It's like converting everything to verbs and processes -  just happening. Even the arising of thoughts and self, just another process of life just happening. This thought process is strong and there is fear of regressing to a former state. There is still a desire to constantly check to see that no one is there.

There is no Gate. Gate is imagined, just like the imagined spoon.

There is a desire to go for a walk after this.


Step 6: How does it feel to be liberated?
If this is liberation, nothing changes on the outside. Nothing changes on the inside except to clearly see there is no one there. There has never been anyone there.

And to think that "I" control "my" life, plus strive to become something that "I" am not, when there's no one there in the first place!! One illusion on top of another!!

Life still happens. Even thinking still happens. Still transitioning between personal and impersonal - this appears to be difficult.
The only major change is to see how doubting of what's real and imagined is the result of striving, but this is a separate thing to be addressed differently.



Thank you for your patience and listening to me rant. I await your instructions.

Regards.
Justin

Ilona: 
oh, wow... how are you feeling? can you describe what happened here? did you really look and saw? or is all still intellectual? the need to keep checking can stay for a while, till it drops too. some time is needed to stabilise and readjust. tell me  more, what are you noticing, forget instructions, rant about what and how you see what is really going on.

looking forward to hear from you!
much love.


Justin:
9:51 AM (11 hours ago)

HI Ilona,
Is this it? I was expecting bliss or some big bang. It was just a subtle shift - no one there. Your instructions to sit with it was useful, as I was going on too fast initially.

I've been looking and already observe that there was no one there the past few days. Yesterday, I did your 6-step process, and starting writing on my notepad. It felt strange to notice no one writing, no one reading.  "Who is writing this? ..." ended up being there. I think slowing down, and noticing no one doing the breathing, then bringing up the thought "I breathe", then noticing that "I" points to nothing. It was more of slowing down and making sure I don't just do it intellectually.

Things like deciding, observing, choosing, knowing. These are more difficult as I always assume you need an "I" to decide, observe etc. It's all language. Like it states in the video, decisions just get made. This relates to loss of control, loss of self-determination and results in fear. I expect some time is required to adjust for this.

"I" thoughts still arise, but there's another process that reminds myself that there's no "I". I'm not checking that no one's there that much - just go about my life.

Went out for a walk, things seem different. Just seeing - with less labelling, less thoughts. I also felt life energy, and a sense of aliveness. I can tune into this more easily. Maybe this is the flow.

There is an awareness of life being mysterious. This relates to loss of control and self-determination. Problems do not go away. Anxieties remain. Just that there's no one there, and to get on with solving problems, dealing with anxiety sensations. Or just lazing around in bed, refusing to face up to the world this morning.

Regards.
Justin


Ilona:
Beautiful. Yes, no boom, just a drop of belief. Simple and profound.
I have some last questions for you to answer, to make sure, that gate was crossed with both legs :)

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who is very interested, but has never heard about this illusion.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?



Please answer when ready in full as honestly as you can.

Sending lots of love to you..


Justin: 
Hi Ilona,
Here are my answers.

1. 'Me' cannot be found anywhere in any way, shape or form. No, it was never there in the first place.

2. The illusion of separate self is the assumption that a 'self' exists, which is the doer of deeds, experiencer of experiences etc. It is difficult to say when it started, but likely to be the result of upbringing from adults when I was a child - that "I" am in control of things like continence and behaviour. I believe it works via the construct of language, where there must be a subject in a sentence. This forms part of our internal thought processes, resulting in "I breathe", "I eat" whereas there's no one there but breathing and eating still happening.

3.  It feels odd to notice that there is no one there, and yet also normal, because it's actually been like this all along. There are less thoughts going in my head, probably because the "I" thought is now redundant. Life goes on as normal, although I can feel a stronger sense of the life force, or aliveness.

4.  This is the process of discovering that there is no instigator behind our activities, and also the nature of how 'self' functions. It requires a sincere look at who or what is the instigator/controller behind all our activities, if any. The result of this looking would show that there is no one behind all our activities. For instance, we can observe that breathing just happens with no one there. The sense of self is a mental labelling process that comes afterwards, attributing an "I" to the activity (ie. I breathe). In reality, that "I" refers to no one.

5. I have some background in meditation, so it was not difficult to just look. I've also read the case studies in "Gateless Gatecrashers". I think it is useful to be calm with no expectations, and slowly look. We have to overcome the belief that there must be a subject involved in every action and just look at what's actually happening. Doing it calmly and slowly provides the gap between observing that there's no one there, and subsequently, the labelling process of "I".


Thank you Ilona! You have a very special role in Life, and I'm indeed fortunate to receive your instructions. Strangely, I'm most grateful for pointing out that I can't tell the difference between real and imagined. Great doubt! It was a great realisation - I, striving to be someone that I'm not, when there's no one there in the first place!

Take care!

Regards.
Justin


Ilona:
That was delightful to read.
:)

Yes, everything is just the same and yet it's different. This is only a beginning, like a new start. There is time for clean up and stabilisation. Soon after all beliefs start falling of in full speed. Like dominoes.

Can I have your permission to post this on my blog as it can help somebody else in turn. Also we have a system at liberation unleashed that once somebody has 'got it' 3 other people confirm that and we invite you to out groups.  There is a whole community now on Facebook. It's very helpful when there is a burning question as all have been through similar stuff. I'd love to meet you there.

If you like, I can change the name for the blog.

Lots of love.

*bows.

This was truly epic.


Justin:
Hi Ilona,
You have my permission to post this on your blog. There is no need to change the name, just not to post my email address.

I haven't got a Facebook account yet, but will set up it soon. I'd be interested in joining liberation unleashed, to see what clean-up and stabilisation actions are required. I'm based in London, so let me know when you next have a meet-up.


Lots of love and a big hug! You've been truly wonderful!
*bow

Regards.
Justin